Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 September 2025
24 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Residential Outdoor Education
The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move to the next item of business.
I call Liz Smith, who joins us remotely.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a statement by Natalie Don-Innes on improving provision and access to residential outdoor education for children and young peopl...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to address the Parliament to provide an update on the Scottish Government’s on-going support for outdoor learning provision for our...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move to th...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I apologise profusely for not being in the chamber in person. The reason for that—the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s visit to the Lithuanian P...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I am probably not able to give definitive answers. On when I want those discussions to start, I am more than happy to contact Ms Smith following the stateme...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for advance sight of the statement. I welcome the fact that the Government has decided to lay the financial resolution for this importa...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
That has been a key consideration for the Government in our deliberations in relation to the financial resolution. I think that I set that out to the member ...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
Among the many issues with the bill as it is currently drafted, which has been mentioned today, is the issue of costings. How did the member in charge improv...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I have been clear that the Government’s position is that the proposals must be affordable and must support equity, as I have just advised, and that, when it ...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I genuinely welcome what I think is a change of attitude from ministers, and I genuinely hope that they will work to help the member to deliver the will of P...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I thank Miles Briggs for those points. I remind members that it is Liz Smith’s bill, and it is up to Liz Smith to deal with some of the concerns and challeng...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
SNP
To follow on from the final point that the minister touched on, what engagement has taken place with local authorities up to this point, and does local gover...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
As I said, I met the COSLA spokespeople on 6 August, and officials have had on-going engagement with COSLA officers and the Association of Directors of Educa...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The minister said that the Government respects the will of the Parliament. That is as it should be, although the progress of this part of the bill has involv...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I believe that I said that in my closing line. I said that I look forward to working with Liz Smith and engaging with her and the rest of the Parliament. I ...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Do the teaching unions support the bill as it is currently framed? What does it mean for the terms and conditions of teachers in Scotland?
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I have touched on that, but I am happy to elaborate, because it is a key concern on the bill. The approach that is proposed by Liz Smith assumes that teacher...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
The minister referenced the importance of outdoor learning being reflected in the learning for sustainability action plan, which I was proud to work on with ...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I would be more than happy to discuss that with Mr Greer ahead of stage 2. As I outlined in my statement, I can see the benefits of residential outdoor educa...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
What is the cash difference between Liz Smith’s costings and those of the minister? If the gap can be closed, will the Government support the bill?
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I do not know whether I can give a specific answer. As I have laid out clearly to the Parliament, we have Liz Smith’s revised costs as well as the costs that...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
As much as the statement is welcome news, it is disappointing that the Scottish Government delayed and obfuscated about the financial resolution. The stateme...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I emphasise again that Liz Smith lodged the bill to introduce a week-long residential trip for children and young people across Scotland. I have given my com...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Members should let the minister respond to the questions that have been asked.
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Perhaps we could pick up those conversations after my statement. I want to be as clear to the Parliament as possible that we have produced the financial res...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Having supported the bill at stage 1, subject to the caveats that I emphasised on both capital and revenue funding, I am pleased that it will now progress to...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Although I am not aware of the specifics around Ms Grahame’s contribution, I have been clear to Mr Briggs and other members that it would be helpful to be ab...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
I have major reservations about the announcement, and I want to press the minister further. What kind of cost are we committing to? Is this a blank cheque? I...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
As I have said, members have details of the finances in front of them, and I am aware of Mr Mason’s concerns, which we have discussed at length. I have been ...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
It is not normal for a curriculum to prescribe outdoor education in such a way as the bill proposes. Nonetheless, North Lanarkshire has a proud tradition of ...