Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 04 September 2025
04 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Water Industry Commission for Scotland (2022-23 and 2023-24 Audits)
Let us be clear: this was a major scandal. We have had some robust meetings, but these were some of the most astonishing meetings that I have ever been involved in. It was not just a case of a few minor missteps; it was a catalogue of serious failings—failings in financial control, in oversight, in leadership and in culture. Those failings have cost the public purse and, more important, have cost public trust.
The reports from the Auditor General laid bare the reality. Splashing the cash was rife, and there was no one to turn the taps off. We saw that public money had been spent on overseas training courses, including £77,000 to send a staff member, who has now left the organisation, to Harvard. That was approved without proper scrutiny, competitive tendering or prior Government approval. What was the Scottish Government’s response? Retrospective approval—not because the spending met the standards of the Scottish public finance manual, but because the money had already been spent.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18680, in the name of Richard Leonard, on behalf of the Public Audit Committee, on the 2022-23 and 2023-2...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Being the convener of the Public Audit Committee is a privilege, and it is one which I will never take for granted. So I am grateful to be opening this after...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Reform)
Reform
On that last point, does the convener agree that the committee never had an adequate explanation as to why the limit was removed?
Richard Leonard
Lab
I thank Graham Simpson, who has been a very active member of this inquiry by the committee. I agree with him that there are still many unanswered questions. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Climate Action and Energy (Gillian Martin)
SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak about the matters that are raised in the Public Audit Committee’s report on the Water Industry Commission for Scot...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (LD)
LD
I make this intervention as a member of the Public Audit Committee rather than as its deputy convener. What do the failures of governance at executive or sen...
Gillian Martin
SNP
Jamie Greene makes a fair point, which is one of the reasons why we carried out a review of the sponsorship arrangements between the Scottish Government and ...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Has there been any review of other organisations to see whether there have been other breaches of policies and processes similar to those that we have seen a...
Gillian Martin
SNP
As I said, the sponsorship arrangements between the Government and public bodies have been completely reviewed. As part of that, we are ensuring that there a...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
One of the committee’s key recommendations was that a robust whistleblowing policy should be put in place for staff. It is one thing to have a sponsorship te...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
It would be helpful if you could bring your remarks to a close soon, cabinet secretary.
Gillian Martin
SNP
Sarah Boyack makes a very good point. One issue that was uncovered was that those in the lower ranks at WICS were afraid to speak out. That was part of a cul...
Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
It gives me no pleasure to make this my first speech after recess. I thank the committee for its forensic analysis of what went wrong at WICS. I welcome the...
Gillian Martin
SNP
I invite Douglas Lumsden to tell me what was missing in my speech. What more would he like to see from me by way of answering any of the questions in the rep...
Douglas Lumsden
Con
The first thing that I would like to hear is an apology to the people of Scotland for all the money that has been wasted. WICS was under the remit of the Sco...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Always speak through the chair.
Douglas Lumsden
Con
I would like to know whether the Scottish Government is doing a full review of all organisations to see whether such a culture exists in other places. Outsid...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Green
Made a request to intervene.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The member is concluding.
Douglas Lumsden
Con
That is set against the SNP Government’s never-ending preaching on what it thinks is best for the Scottish public. The cabinet secretary should hang her head...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the members of the Public Audit Committee for their work, and the clerks to the committee for their support. This is a damning committee report. Th...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Green
I join members in thanking the Public Audit Committee. I am not a member of the committee, although I sit on the Scottish Commission for Public Audit. The wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate. I advise back benchers seeking to speak in the open debate that I require speeches of up to four minutes. 16:14
Colin Beattie (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
SNP
I begin by thanking my colleagues in the Public Audit Committee, and the committee clerks, whose hard work helped to produce the report. The report is about ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call Tim Eagle, who is joining us remotely. 16:18
Tim Eagle (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I apologise for not being able to be present in the chamber for this debate. I intend to keep my remarks brief, as Douglas Lumsden outlined perfectly the man...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I suspect that most of my constituents had never heard of WICS until this scandal erupted. Many more of them are now aware of this important regulator becaus...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, thank the committee for its dogged investigation into the matter. Proper spending of public money is of the utmost importance. The principle is not o...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Reform)
Reform
Let us be clear: this was a major scandal. We have had some robust meetings, but these were some of the most astonishing meetings that I have ever been invol...
Douglas Lumsden
Con
Will the member take an intervention?