Committee
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 21 January 2025
21 Jan 2025 · S6 · Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Item of business
Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning. I will make a few remarks before we turn to amendment 1. We have an extraordinarily large number of amendments before us, so I intend to keep my remarks as short as possible to provide the committee with the information that members need while ensuring that we can proceed in a timely manner to deal with them all. I am happy to answer any questions that members have. I also want to thank all those who have engaged with the bill and supported the development of the amendments that I have lodged. I want to take the opportunity to note the constructive engagement that I have had, in considering all the amendments, with the Lord President and the senior judiciary, the Law Society of Scotland, the Faculty of Advocates, the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission, the consumer panel of the Scottish Legal Complaints Commission and the bodies that are represented on it. Draft amendments were shared with the senior judiciary, and I have reflected carefully on their comments. I note the comments of the Lord President in his letter to the committee on 23 December, in which he notes: “Our significant ... concerns have been addressed” and that “the senior judiciary are broadly content with the amendments lodged”. I also welcome the comments of the Law Society in its letter to the committee on 10 January, in which it shares that view. I hope that the committee and stakeholders are reassured by those comments and that they can support the amendments. I acknowledge that the bill has attracted differing views from stakeholders; we have had to balance those differing views as we aim to modernise the regulatory system. If the amendments that are proposed at stage 2 are agreed, the bill will achieve the right balance, by delivering the priorities of the stakeholders and a modern, more flexible regulatory system. I turn to amendments 2 and 43. The Law Society of Scotland, the Faculty of Advocates and the senior judiciary raised concerns at stage 1 about the provision in the bill that conferred powers on the Scottish ministers. The Scottish Government absolutely recognises the importance of an independent legal profession and is committed to upholding that independence. The intention has been that the bill would protect the independence of the legal profession while introducing greater transparency and accountability with regard to the profession’s duty to work in the public interest. I wrote to the committee in September 2023 to say that I would lodge amendments to remove the references to the Scottish ministers that caused concern, and I confirmed that again in my response to the stage 1 report. Amendments 2 and 43 are the first of a number of amendments that remove that provision, and the committee has been provided with a list that highlights those amendments. As this is the same change throughout the whole bill, I will not repeat the reasoning in each group. Amendment 43 will remove section 5 of the bill, which would have conferred a delegated power on the Scottish ministers to amend the objectives of legal services regulation and the professional principles to which persons providing legal services should adhere. Amendment 2 is consequential to that change. Amendment 3 makes a change to section 1, removing the reference to the ministerial powers in sections 19 and 20. It is consequential on amendments to those sections that have the effect of transferring the powers under those sections from the Scottish ministers to the Lord President. Amendments 1, 4, 38 to 41 and 46 are technical amendments to clarify the language in places in part 1 of the bill. Amendment 42 adds the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal to the list in section 3(5) of named regulatory authorities to which the regulatory objectives apply. Following discussion with Scottish Mediation, amendments 44 and 45 clarify the meaning of the term “legal services” to ensure that the definition does not include alternative dispute resolution activities. I ask members to support the amendments in this group. I move amendment 1.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Adam)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Our first...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 to 4 and 38 to 46. I call the minister to move amendment 1 and to speak to all the ame...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
Good morning. I will make a few remarks before we turn to amendment 1. We have an extraordinarily large number of amendments before us, so I intend to keep m...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Good morning, minister. With regard to amendments 40, 41 and 42, the named regulatory authorities need carry out their regulatory duty only so far as practic...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, certainly. Amendment 41 makes it clear that the requirement to exercise regulatory functions in a way that contributes to sustainable economic growth ap...
Maggie Chapman
Green
Thank you. I thought that it would be helpful to have that on the record.
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Before we move into lengthy consideration of the amendments that are before us, I thought that it would be helpful to put on the record some general comments...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Minister, I would be grateful if, when you wind up, you could address the SLCC’s concerns about amendment 40. The amendment looks like a minor drafting adjus...
The Convener
SNP
I invite the minister to wind up, please.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
I thank Paul O’Kane for his comments. I know that the bill has been on a bit of a journey since it was introduced in April 2023. When we went into stage 1, c...
Tess White
Con
And the SLCC? You mentioned discussions with the Law Society in relation to the amendment.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, after engagement, we decided that amendment 40 is the right way forward. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendments 2 to 4 moved—Siobhian Brown—and agreed to. ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 47, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 5 to 26, 28 to 38, 412, 413, 461 to 466, 507 and 522.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 47, 522 and 466 will make the necessary changes to legislation to reflect the change of name of the Association of Commercial Attorneys to the Ass...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 48 to 50 have been lodged in response to concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee and legal stakeholders that section 8 mi...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 51, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 53 and 52, 54 to 67, and 69 to 92. I draw members’ attention to the pre-emptions set ou...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 51 to 72 bring the provisions relating to a category 1 regulator’s exercise of its regulatory functions by an independent regulatory committee est...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 541, in the name of Tess White, is grouped with amendments 542, 546 to 548, 561, 566 to 570, 574 to 577, 579 to 581, 583 to 589, 591 to 604 and 607...
Tess White
Con
The amendments in this group are probing amendments. I lodged them because my colleagues and I believe that the bill does not go far enough in creating a sim...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I put on the record my thanks to the many stakeholders who provided briefings in advance, some of which were referenced by Tess White, including the Law Soci...
Maggie Chapman
Green
I thank Tess White and Paul O’Kane for the discussion, because it is useful for us to air our views. I ask the minister to talk specifically about the conce...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
The Scottish Government recognised the differing views on the primary recommendation in Esther Roberton’s report, so it committed to seeking a wide range of ...
The Convener
SNP
I invite Tess White to wind up and press or seek to withdraw amendment 541.
Tess White
Con
I thank the minister for her remarks. I am not going to press my amendments in this group at stage 2, but I welcome the opportunity to get it on the record t...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 68, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 93 to 101, 105, 104, 102, 103, 106 to 121, 310, 311, 122 to 178 and 459.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Section 20 currently allows Scottish ministers to intervene in the event of concerns being raised that a regulator is failing to exercise their regulatory fu...
The Convener
SNP
If amendment 542 is agreed to, I cannot call amendment 77, which was debated with amendment 51 in group 4, because of pre-emption. Amendment 542 not moved. ...
The Convener
SNP
I propose that we suspend the meeting for five minutes for a comfort break. 10:42 Meeting suspended. 10:51 On resuming— Section 21—Power to direct speci...
The Convener
SNP
Welcome back. Amendment 179, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 180 to 188, 543, 189, 190, 544, 191 to 199 and 545.