Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 12 June 2025
12 Jun 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Migration
Liz Smith talked about this being a UK-wide issue. First, although I agree that it is a sectoral issue rather than a uniquely Scottish one, we always come to the point that if the UK Government does not take a different approach, we will have to talk about why it needs to be different for Scotland.
Secondly, there is the question of illegal versus legal migration. We strongly feel that the reduction in the routes for legal migration—whether that is based on salary levels or otherwise—is not resolving the issue. Lots of countries around the world have a very relaxed approach to legal migration and therefore see very low levels of illegal migration.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17906, in the name of Kate Forbes, on a migration system that works for Scotland. I invite members who wi...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes)
SNP
Scotland’s economic history is deeply intertwined with migration and emigration. Famines, industrialisation, the growth of cities, lowland and highland clear...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
The Deputy First Minister is absolutely right to focus on how we maximise people’s participation in the workforce. Has there been any analysis of why economi...
Kate Forbes
SNP
It is an excellent question. The figures fluctuate considerably from month to month, and I am tracking them very closely. There are a number of elements to t...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I do not need to remind the cabinet secretary of how important the rural depopulation issue is within all of this. That is not just a matter of migration pol...
Kate Forbes
SNP
I absolutely agree. The National Records of Scotland, among others, forecasts double-digit reductions in population, particularly across coastal and island c...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Regarding the rural pilot schemes for visas, 48 per cent of Scotland’s dairy herd is in the south-west of Scotland, and a lot of the cows are milked by perso...
Kate Forbes
SNP
I do, and anecdotes like that could be replicated in many different parts of Scotland. Employers frequently put it to me that migration is an area where they...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I greatly welcome the Deputy First Minister’s tone, because, as we all know, far too often, migration debates are highly contentious and framed by economic, ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I also welcome Liz Smith’s tone in the debate, and I recognise what she said at the outset about racism and misinformation about the facts of immigration. Do...
Liz Smith
Con
Yes, I absolutely recognise that. The media is partly responsible for some of that divisiveness. I come back to the Deputy First Minister’s point about homo...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liz Smith
Con
Will I get a little time back?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Yes.
Daniel Johnson
Lab
Liz Smith is making a really interesting contribution about some of the nuances in the labour market. Is there also a broader, global context, in which world...
Liz Smith
Con
That is a very good point from Mr Johnson. I think that he is right that there is a global context to the issue, which is important. When I was elected to t...
Kate Forbes
SNP
Liz Smith talked about this being a UK-wide issue. First, although I agree that it is a sectoral issue rather than a uniquely Scottish one, we always come to...
Liz Smith
Con
That is a fair point to make. There is a broader picture about how well we can navigate not only a global situation but the situation in the UK. Although I h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Michael Marra to speak to and move amendment S6M-17906.2. 15:44
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
As we have heard, Scotland has long been—and remains—a welcoming country to people who want to settle here, to join our community, to enjoy this beautiful co...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I am grateful to Michael Marra for taking my intervention. One of my concerns with the white paper from his colleagues in London is that it does not recognis...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I will give you the time back, Michael Marra.
Michael Marra
Lab
I thank Jeremy Balfour for his intervention. I understand that he has personal experience of care, as he has often set out in the chamber. It is a very relev...
Michael Marra
Lab
I would appreciate it if I could make some progress, Deputy First Minister. By contrast, on the economic side, the Scottish National Party is propping up a ...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Michael Marra
Lab
I do not have the time, Ms Grahame—apologies. However, the Scottish Government has not even managed to train enough workers to meet the current demand. Ins...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I advise members that we have a little bit of time in hand. If members take interventions, they will certainly get the time back. 15:50
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
I am pleased to contribute to the debate, not only to support the motion but to speak to a principle that must guide us in everything that we do: every perso...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, and I am also grateful for the tone that has been fostered by those on all sides of the chamber thu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
We move to the open debate. 16:00