Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 01 May 2025
01 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Hydrogen Future
Patrick Harvie raises an important point, because hydrogen is not an uncontroversial choice. It is not as energy-dense as gas, so there has to be a judgment about whether it is a sensible choice for some uses. I agree that we need to trial it, but does the cabinet secretary acknowledge that we must make a very careful judgment as to whether hydrogen is a sensible alternative to natural gas and a better choice than straightforward electrification, which is more direct and therefore more efficient, above all else?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17399, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s hydrogen future. I invite members who wish to speak i...
The Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy (Gillian Martin)
SNP
Colleagues, today’s debate on Scotland’s hydrogen future is important, and I am pleased to open it. Hydrogen stands as a critical pillar of Scotland’s route ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
The cabinet secretary began by talking about hydrogen’s role in helping to decarbonise “hard-to-abate” sectors of the economy. Why is she now talking in posi...
Gillian Martin
SNP
I think that H100 is a proof of concept. We will have to look at multiple opportunities to decarbonise heating. Some areas in Scotland, such as the western a...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Patrick Harvie raises an important point, because hydrogen is not an uncontroversial choice. It is not as energy-dense as gas, so there has to be a judgment ...
Gillian Martin
SNP
This sort of debate can sometimes be frustrating, because some people are very keen on particular types of technology when there is a myriad of technologies....
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Gillian Martin
SNP
Do I have time, Deputy Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There is time in hand, cabinet secretary.
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I will not make my intervention too long. I very much understand the concept of exporting hydrogen, but we have to build the infrastructure. Professor Jim Sk...
Gillian Martin
SNP
The Scottish Government produced its own hydrogen export plan, which looks into exactly that, but it is not something that Scotland could do alone. We need t...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I welcome this debate because, amid all the hoo-hah about net zero, just transition, affordable transition or whatever we want to call it, if we asked people...
Gillian Martin
SNP
I am grateful to Graham Simpson for listing all those projects. Cumulatively, there are quite a lot of projects, and because I took so many interventions, I ...
Graham Simpson
Con
I am not here to do the cabinet secretary’s job for her, but I am happy to assist on this occasion. There are promising projects. I am grateful to Green Cat...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Graham Simpson
Con
Is there time in hand, Deputy Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There is.
Graham Simpson
Con
Jolly good. I will take Mr Harvie’s intervention.
Patrick Harvie
Green
The member talked about energy security. In what way does it assist energy security to power home heating with something so massively inefficient as hydrogen...
Graham Simpson
Con
I am mystified by the Greens’ approach to hydrogen. It is a fuel that gives off nothing but water; I thought that the Greens would be on board with that. Sur...
Daniel Johnson
Lab
As I said before, I think that it is important to pilot this, but hydrogen has about one quarter of the energy density of natural gas. Is it not better to fo...
Graham Simpson
Con
I agree with the cabinet secretary that our energy system should be a mix. That is why I am keen to pilot hydrogen—just to see whether it works. I see Mr Joh...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
We need a constructive debate, because this will affect us right across the country. It is important in terms of our environmental and economic ambitions. It...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I am grateful for the opportunity to intervene. I note and welcome the fact that Sarah Boyack is specifically referencing green hydrogen. I was a little conf...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
There is a hierarchy in maximising the lowest-carbon opportunities for hydrogen. I know that there is an argument for using blue hydrogen, which I will refle...
Gillian Martin
SNP
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Can I just keep going on this point? The key factor about the situation at Grangemouth is that it is not just about increasing the supply of green hydrogen;...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green)
Green
I welcome the fact that we have the opportunity to debate this issue. It should not be seen as a simplistic debate, and there certainly should not be a split...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with some of what Patrick Harvie has to say—I am very much an advocate for green hydrogen. Blue hydro...
Patrick Harvie
Green
If I understand the argument correctly, that still depends on the development and efficiency of carbon capture and storage, which has yet to be proven and wi...