Committee
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 18 March 2025
18 Mar 2025 · S6 · Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Item of business
Building Safety and Maintenance
Sean Clerkin
Watch on SPTV
I was going to say that part of the idea behind Awaab’s law was that there should be a statutory framework: we need a statutory framework in which expert witnesses would do the reports. If there was a dispute between tenant and landlord—for example, between Wheatley Homes and a tenant—there would be an expert witness report.
Expert witness reports could be publicly funded by the state because tenants are, for the most part, on very low incomes. They feel as though they are outgunned by landlords. The bottom line is that expert witnesses should be funded by the state.
There is a very good public expert witness—Professor Tim Sharpe—in the west of Scotland, who does a lot of reports. We also have Kristine Reilly-Blake, who works for Healthy Homes and Beyond IAQ Ltd. Those expert witnesses go in and act impartially. They look at the damp and mould and do a report that can be trusted by both the landlord and the tenant. Independent expert witnesses who are publicly funded by the public purse, as part of a statutory framework to tackle damp and mould, would be a very good thing.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Green
The next item on our agenda is an evidence-taking session as part of our work on building safety and maintenance. We will be hearing this morning from two pa...
Aoife Deery (Citizens Advice Scotland)
Thank you, convener, and thank you for having us along to this morning’s session. As you will have seen from our written submission, we deal with a very hig...
The Convener
Green
Thank you very much for that, Aoife. It certainly sounds like a pretty horrendous experience. My colleagues and I are getting similar cases in our inboxes; i...
Emma Saunders (Living Rent)
Good morning, everyone. I am very glad to be here. Just as Aoife Deery has said, it is hard to know what volume of complaints we get on these matters, becau...
Sean Clerkin (Scottish Tenants Organisation)
Over 90 per cent of our casework is with tenants who have rampant damp and mould. Essentially, we have an endemic damp and mould problem that is blighting th...
The Convener
Green
I must stop you there, because we have specific questions about Awaab’s law. We will come on to that.
Sean Clerkin
Right. I will just finish by saying that the burden falls on the tenant, because the landlord regards them as the expert. They have to make the complaint and...
The Convener
Green
That is great. Thank you, Sean, for highlighting your perspective that landlords do not understand the issues of damp and mould in their properties. Does an...
Shona Gorman (Tenants Together Scotland)
Good morning, and thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today. The examples that we have already heard this morning are pretty horrific. Although...
The Convener
Green
Thanks very much for that. A panel of architect experts will be joining us after you, and maybe they can shed some light on those questions. I will now brin...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning to everybody on the panel. Thinking about the examples that people have cited just now and in previous years, is it your experience that the da...
Sean Clerkin
I am going to bring up the idea of having Awaab’s law in Scotland again, if I may, because it is directly relevant to the question. The bottom line is that, ...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Many thanks for that. I realise that I am probably encroaching on my colleagues’ questions, which will give you a chance to develop that theme. I would like...
Emma Saunders (Living Rent)
Yes. I will give an example from the private rented sector. Some people who were living down south, in England, were moving up to Edinburgh. They were not ab...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Are there any other views from the panel on the idea of having some kind of front-end assessment of a property’s condition?
Aoife Deery
I think that it is a really good suggestion, particularly from the perspective of the social rented sector, where pre-tenancy checks are already carried out....
Willie Coffey
SNP
Are there any other comments on that? 10:00
Shona Gorman
I think that it is an excellent idea and definitely something that should be pursued. We need that, but we also need landlords to talk to incoming tenants. W...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Thanks very much for that, Shona. It leads me to the question that I was supposed to ask at the outset. Your submission to the committee highlighted to us th...
Shona Gorman
In the best of worlds, landlords do not want to have this issue. Reputationally, they cannot afford to have this issue, and, for the health and safety of the...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Thank you, again, Shona. I will turn to Emma Saunders, briefly. Your submission told of the need for impartial independent expertise, advice and reports abo...
Emma Saunders
Thank you for bringing that up. The experiences of council tenants, social tenants and private tenants are different. In council and social housing, reports ...
Willie Coffey
SNP
Who should do that kind of assessment?
Emma Saunders
It is hard to think about having a whole new system that is very expensive to run when we know that there is not enough money in the housing system. However,...
Sean Clerkin
I was going to say that part of the idea behind Awaab’s law was that there should be a statutory framework: we need a statutory framework in which expert wit...
Graham Simpson
Con
The meeting has been very interesting so far. Before I ask about Awaab’s law, I note that we have had some discussion already about the need to look at build...
Shona Gorman
Yes, you are right—we do. This guttering thing will haunt me, probably. Can I say to my landlord, please, that I am not suggesting that they are not cleaning...
Graham Simpson
Con
Do any witnesses have views on the responsibility of factors for maintaining buildings properly?
Emma Saunders
Our members mention problems with factors all the time—factors not doing their jobs and their not being able to hold factors accountable. Anything that can s...
Graham Simpson
Con
I will turn to Awaab’s law. Sean Clerkin has made a couple of lengthy contributions on the matter already. However, I think that it is worth setting out the ...