Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 26 February 2025
26 Feb 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scottish Enterprise Funding (Arms Companies)
This is an important debate, but we need to approach it with maturity. In all honesty, I agree with things that have been said already by all sides, so it is important that I step through all that.
I very much welcome Richard Lochhead’s approach to the debate, which must be about principles. I will set out mine. The debate must be about Gaza. I do not think that we can look at what has happened in Gaza and in any way condone or support it, at this point. I say that as someone who was clear, after the atrocities of 7 October, that Israel had the right to defend itself. However, what has happened in Gaza is truly horrific, so I do not think that we can be seen to be using our public money to support it.
However, unfortunately—this is where Craig Hoy is right—we cannot separate those issues and those of the defence sector from the real and present danger that we face in this country. We live in unparalleled and unprecedented times.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16571, in the name of Lorna Slater, on Scottish Enterprise funding for arms companies. I invite members w...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I was very proud to be part of the Scottish Government under First Minister Humza Yousaf when he spoke up so movingly on the plight of the Palestinian people...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
As ever with these debates, we have next to no time in hand, so members will be expected to stick to their time allocations. 14:58
The Minister for Business (Richard Lochhead)
SNP
Given the backdrop to this important debate, it is important that we recognise that much that will be discussed today unites us all. The debate provides an a...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I absolutely agree with the minister’s words on Ukraine. On 3 March 2022, the Scottish Government sent a clear instruction not just to arms companies but to ...
Richard Lochhead
SNP
I ask Ross Greer to be patient for a little bit, because I am about to come to the point about consistency in the way in which we approach due diligence on h...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
If Iran is still able to arm and to produce arms for export, surely it is unfair to stop Israel defending itself.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I can give you the time back for the intervention, minister.
Richard Lochhead
SNP
I have already outlined the backdrop against which the debate is taking place and said that we should unite on many key principles, which I hope John Mason w...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
I echo Richard Lochhead’s comments about welcoming a peace solution, if it holds, in the middle east. Sometimes, motions—including the one today—force mem...
Ross Greer
Green
Will the member give way?
Craig Hoy
Con
I do not have time. The Scottish Greens say that they defend the planet, but we must sometimes ask which planet they are defending. Today’s motion begs that...
Ross Greer
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Craig Hoy
Con
I do not have time. The Greens will be living in a world in which we would see more Russian aggression on former satellite states and more unwarranted attac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Daniel Johnson to speak to and move amendment S6M-16571.2. 15:08
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
This is an important debate, but we need to approach it with maturity. In all honesty, I agree with things that have been said already by all sides, so it is...
Lorna Slater
Green
Will Daniel Johnson take an intervention?
Daniel Johnson
Lab
I am afraid that I do not have time. I need to make some progress. We have to understand what that will take. Keith Brown made some of the points very well ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I am grateful to Lorna Slater for making time for this important debate. It brings me up against an aspect of my life that I do not often talk about in the c...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Will Alex Cole-Hamilton take an intervention?
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
Do I have time in hand, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
No—there is no time in hand.
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I am afraid that I cannot take an intervention, on this occasion. Scottish Liberal Democrats helped to force the introduction of new rules. However, in 2022...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Mr Cole-Hamilton, you need to conclude.
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
Although I understand that that is not the aim of the Greens’ motion, I fear that it would be the outcome. 15:17
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Politics is about the particular, and it is right that, in this motion, we are calling for something specific, tangible and measurable, and entirely achievab...
Humza Yousaf (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
SNP
I thank the Green Party for bringing this important debate to the chamber. Let me say from the outset that I support its calls to end all arms sales to Israe...
Jackson Carlaw (Eastwood) (Con)
Con
One of the things that I most regret in a debate that I suppose it is perfectly reasonable that we should have is that, despite the affection and respect tha...
Ross Greer
Green
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw
Con
Perhaps, in a moment. The reality, of course, is that the number of arms that this country is involved in directly supplying to Israel is minuscule, yet Mr ...