Committee
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 21 January 2025
21 Jan 2025 · S6 · Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Item of business
Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Before we move into lengthy consideration of the amendments that are before us, I thought that it would be helpful to put on the record some general comments about this section and the ministerial powers that apply to the amendments in this group, so that I will not have to repeat my comments in any of the subsequent groupings. For those of us on the committee who heard the stage 1 evidence, it was clear that the bill did not start out in a place of consensus. There was much concern about the warnings that came from respected organisations, including the Law Society, the Faculty of Advocates and the senior judiciary, that were in many ways unprecedented. Such was the level of concern about the threat to the independence of the judiciary from the imposition of ministerial powers that it seemed that the bill was, at points, quite significantly flawed and that it would require subsequent amendments, such as those that are before us. In saying that, credit should be given to the minister and the team of officials for the work that they have done on the amendments over many months, and for their work with stakeholders to sufficiently address risk. I also thank the minister for her constructive engagement with me in listening to many of the concerns about those aspects of the bill and, more widely, for offering a collegiate way of working to address some of the issues. I hope that we will continue with that collegiate approach throughout stage 2 consideration and into stage 3. I still have some areas of concern in the bill more widely but it would not be appropriate for me expand on those now. To avoid dragging on for too long, I just confirm my support for amendments in the group and say that I am keen to continue the debate as we move through the remaining amendments. I am grateful to you, convener.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Adam)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Our first...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 to 4 and 38 to 46. I call the minister to move amendment 1 and to speak to all the ame...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
Good morning. I will make a few remarks before we turn to amendment 1. We have an extraordinarily large number of amendments before us, so I intend to keep m...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Good morning, minister. With regard to amendments 40, 41 and 42, the named regulatory authorities need carry out their regulatory duty only so far as practic...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, certainly. Amendment 41 makes it clear that the requirement to exercise regulatory functions in a way that contributes to sustainable economic growth ap...
Maggie Chapman
Green
Thank you. I thought that it would be helpful to have that on the record.
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Before we move into lengthy consideration of the amendments that are before us, I thought that it would be helpful to put on the record some general comments...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Minister, I would be grateful if, when you wind up, you could address the SLCC’s concerns about amendment 40. The amendment looks like a minor drafting adjus...
The Convener
SNP
I invite the minister to wind up, please.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
I thank Paul O’Kane for his comments. I know that the bill has been on a bit of a journey since it was introduced in April 2023. When we went into stage 1, c...
Tess White
Con
And the SLCC? You mentioned discussions with the Law Society in relation to the amendment.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, after engagement, we decided that amendment 40 is the right way forward. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendments 2 to 4 moved—Siobhian Brown—and agreed to. ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 47, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 5 to 26, 28 to 38, 412, 413, 461 to 466, 507 and 522.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 47, 522 and 466 will make the necessary changes to legislation to reflect the change of name of the Association of Commercial Attorneys to the Ass...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 48 to 50 have been lodged in response to concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee and legal stakeholders that section 8 mi...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 51, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 53 and 52, 54 to 67, and 69 to 92. I draw members’ attention to the pre-emptions set ou...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 51 to 72 bring the provisions relating to a category 1 regulator’s exercise of its regulatory functions by an independent regulatory committee est...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 541, in the name of Tess White, is grouped with amendments 542, 546 to 548, 561, 566 to 570, 574 to 577, 579 to 581, 583 to 589, 591 to 604 and 607...
Tess White
Con
The amendments in this group are probing amendments. I lodged them because my colleagues and I believe that the bill does not go far enough in creating a sim...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I put on the record my thanks to the many stakeholders who provided briefings in advance, some of which were referenced by Tess White, including the Law Soci...
Maggie Chapman
Green
I thank Tess White and Paul O’Kane for the discussion, because it is useful for us to air our views. I ask the minister to talk specifically about the conce...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
The Scottish Government recognised the differing views on the primary recommendation in Esther Roberton’s report, so it committed to seeking a wide range of ...
The Convener
SNP
I invite Tess White to wind up and press or seek to withdraw amendment 541.
Tess White
Con
I thank the minister for her remarks. I am not going to press my amendments in this group at stage 2, but I welcome the opportunity to get it on the record t...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 68, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 93 to 101, 105, 104, 102, 103, 106 to 121, 310, 311, 122 to 178 and 459.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Section 20 currently allows Scottish ministers to intervene in the event of concerns being raised that a regulator is failing to exercise their regulatory fu...
The Convener
SNP
If amendment 542 is agreed to, I cannot call amendment 77, which was debated with amendment 51 in group 4, because of pre-emption. Amendment 542 not moved. ...
The Convener
SNP
I propose that we suspend the meeting for five minutes for a comfort break. 10:42 Meeting suspended. 10:51 On resuming— Section 21—Power to direct speci...
The Convener
SNP
Welcome back. Amendment 179, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 180 to 188, 543, 189, 190, 544, 191 to 199 and 545.