Committee
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee 21 January 2025
21 Jan 2025 · S6 · Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Item of business
Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Our first and only agenda item is consideration of the Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. I will briefly explain the procedure that we will follow for the benefit of anyone who is watching. Members should have with them a copy of the bill, the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The documents are available on the bill page on the Scottish Parliament’s website. I will call each amendment individually in the order on the marshalled list. The member who lodged the amendment should either move it or say “not moved” when the amendment is called. If that member does not move the amendment, any other member present may do so. The groupings of amendments set out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. In each debate, I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in the group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. It would be helpful if members could be clear about which amendment they are speaking to, given that there are so many amendments. I will then call other members who have amendments in the group to speak to, but not to move, their amendments and to speak to other amendments in the group, if they wish. I will then call any other member who wishes to speak in the debate. Members wishing to speak should indicate that by catching my or the clerk’s attention. I will then call the minister, if she has not already spoken in the debate. Finally, I will call the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up and to indicate whether he or she wishes to press the amendment or to withdraw it. If the amendment is pressed, I will put the question on the amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw an amendment after it has been moved and debated, I will ask whether any member present objects. If there is an objection, I will immediately put the question on the amendment. The other amendments in a group are not debated again when they are reached. If they are moved, I will put the question on them straight away. If there is a division, only committee members are entitled to vote. Voting is done by a show of hands and it is important that members keep their hands raised clearly until the clerk has recorded their names. If there is a tie, I must exercise a casting vote. The committee is also required to consider and decide on each section and schedule of the bill and the long title. I will put the question on each of those provisions at the appropriate point. We will not go beyond the end of section 50 today. Before we begin proceedings, I welcome the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, Siobhian Brown. Section 1—Overview of the regulatory framework
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Adam)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. We have received no apologies. Our first...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 to 4 and 38 to 46. I call the minister to move amendment 1 and to speak to all the ame...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
Good morning. I will make a few remarks before we turn to amendment 1. We have an extraordinarily large number of amendments before us, so I intend to keep m...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Good morning, minister. With regard to amendments 40, 41 and 42, the named regulatory authorities need carry out their regulatory duty only so far as practic...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, certainly. Amendment 41 makes it clear that the requirement to exercise regulatory functions in a way that contributes to sustainable economic growth ap...
Maggie Chapman
Green
Thank you. I thought that it would be helpful to have that on the record.
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Before we move into lengthy consideration of the amendments that are before us, I thought that it would be helpful to put on the record some general comments...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Minister, I would be grateful if, when you wind up, you could address the SLCC’s concerns about amendment 40. The amendment looks like a minor drafting adjus...
The Convener
SNP
I invite the minister to wind up, please.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
I thank Paul O’Kane for his comments. I know that the bill has been on a bit of a journey since it was introduced in April 2023. When we went into stage 1, c...
Tess White
Con
And the SLCC? You mentioned discussions with the Law Society in relation to the amendment.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Yes, after engagement, we decided that amendment 40 is the right way forward. Amendment 1 agreed to. Amendments 2 to 4 moved—Siobhian Brown—and agreed to. ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 47, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 5 to 26, 28 to 38, 412, 413, 461 to 466, 507 and 522.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 47, 522 and 466 will make the necessary changes to legislation to reflect the change of name of the Association of Commercial Attorneys to the Ass...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 48, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 49 and 50.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 48 to 50 have been lodged in response to concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee and legal stakeholders that section 8 mi...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 51, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 53 and 52, 54 to 67, and 69 to 92. I draw members’ attention to the pre-emptions set ou...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Amendments 51 to 72 bring the provisions relating to a category 1 regulator’s exercise of its regulatory functions by an independent regulatory committee est...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 541, in the name of Tess White, is grouped with amendments 542, 546 to 548, 561, 566 to 570, 574 to 577, 579 to 581, 583 to 589, 591 to 604 and 607...
Tess White
Con
The amendments in this group are probing amendments. I lodged them because my colleagues and I believe that the bill does not go far enough in creating a sim...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I put on the record my thanks to the many stakeholders who provided briefings in advance, some of which were referenced by Tess White, including the Law Soci...
Maggie Chapman
Green
I thank Tess White and Paul O’Kane for the discussion, because it is useful for us to air our views. I ask the minister to talk specifically about the conce...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
The Scottish Government recognised the differing views on the primary recommendation in Esther Roberton’s report, so it committed to seeking a wide range of ...
The Convener
SNP
I invite Tess White to wind up and press or seek to withdraw amendment 541.
Tess White
Con
I thank the minister for her remarks. I am not going to press my amendments in this group at stage 2, but I welcome the opportunity to get it on the record t...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 68, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 93 to 101, 105, 104, 102, 103, 106 to 121, 310, 311, 122 to 178 and 459.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
Section 20 currently allows Scottish ministers to intervene in the event of concerns being raised that a regulator is failing to exercise their regulatory fu...
The Convener
SNP
If amendment 542 is agreed to, I cannot call amendment 77, which was debated with amendment 51 in group 4, because of pre-emption. Amendment 542 not moved. ...
The Convener
SNP
I propose that we suspend the meeting for five minutes for a comfort break. 10:42 Meeting suspended. 10:51 On resuming— Section 21—Power to direct speci...
The Convener
SNP
Welcome back. Amendment 179, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 180 to 188, 543, 189, 190, 544, 191 to 199 and 545.