Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 21 January 2025
21 Jan 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Women’s State Pensions (Compensation)
I will give way to Paul O’Kane when I have read out Liz Kendall’s response, and I would like him to either agree or disagree with what she said. In her statement to the House of Commons, she said that
“the great majority of women knew the state pension age was increasing”,
and she went on to say that it would not represent
“value for ... money”—[Official Report, House of Commons, 17 December 2024; Vol 759, c 169.]
for the taxpayer if compensation were to be paid. Is Paul O’Kane correct in saying that those women deserve compensation, or is his Labour Secretary of State for Work and Pensions correct in saying that enough of them knew about it and that paying compensation would not be value for money for UK taxpayers?
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16160, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on Women Against State Pension Inequality. Members who wis...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I do not think that those buttons are working to allow us to indicate that we want to speak.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I can certainly see those buttons on my screen. I thank Mr Balfour for raising that issue and we will keep an eye on it. I call the cabinet secretary. 14:32
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville)
SNP
The Scottish Government has consistently called on the United Kingdom Government to right the historic wrongs suffered by the WASPI women. The First Minister...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I support the cabinet secretary’s remarks so far. I hope that she is right that the Parliament will speak with one voice today. Will she give an update on di...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Certainly. There have been numerous letters and debating points that we have discussed with the UK Government. I stand ready to send yet another letter to th...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary’s remarks completely fail to acknowledge the UK Labour Government’s commitment to the pension triple lock—a commitment that I hope she ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
I share any concern about the triple lock being diminished. Quite frankly, however, Mr O’Kane’s party is in Government now and he needs to take responsibilit...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Paul O’Kane to speak to and move amendment S6M-16160.1. 14:47
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I will begin, as I have done in debates in which I have spoken on this topic in this chamber in my four years in Parliament, by acknowledging all the WASPI w...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Presiding Officer, I am afraid that I am finding it very difficult to hear. I do not know whether that is due to the gallery clearing or as a result of noise...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Thank you, Mr O’Kane. I appreciate that. We will just allow a moment for the gallery to clear.
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I was about to make the point that there has been an undertaking to learn from the experience, to understand what the issues ar...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
Does the member think that it was wrong for the Prime Minister to stand up and say that he would compensate the WASPI women? Should he fully apologise for no...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I think that it was wrong of Mr Balfour’s party not to engage with the PHSO report in any meaningful way in the previous UK parliamentary session and, indeed...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
On the point about the Labour apology, will Mr O’Kane tell me how much, in cash terms, in the open market, a Labour apology is worth to those WASPI women who...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Mr O’Kane, before you respond, I gently remind our visitors, who are very welcome to their Parliament, that applause or any other contributions from the publ...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I am coming on to that point about that disappointment and what else I feel could be done. An apology is important, and I have outlined why. I gently say to...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Let us hear Mr O’Kane.
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer.
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Will Mr O’Kane give way?
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Not at this stage. I have much to get through, as Mr Stewart will appreciate. I recognise the importance of what the ombudsman has said about the apology an...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
SNP
On Paul O’Kane’s point about paying a fair level of compensation, surely the UK Government should be paying the full level of money that has been taken away ...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
I have to say to the member that, in a spirit of consensus, I am trying to make points relating to the PHSO report, and the PHSO has outlined a number of rec...
Shirley-Anne Somerville
SNP
Just to be clear, in the statement by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions setting out the UK Government position, she did not say, “I don’t agree wi...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
As I have said previously, in this speech and in my other contributions on this matter, the door should not be closed and there is a process that should be e...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
Like the two previous speakers, I welcome the WASPI women to Parliament today, as I did last Wednesday, when Kenny Gibson led an excellent debate in which we...
Paul O’Kane
Lab
Made a request to intervene.
Douglas Ross
Con
I will give way to Paul O’Kane when I have read out Liz Kendall’s response, and I would like him to either agree or disagree with what she said. In her state...