Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 January 2025
08 Jan 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Secure Accommodation Capacity
I thank Roz McCall for her questions—there was a lot in there.
I do not necessarily agree with the suggestion that we have fallen at the first hurdle. With regard to the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024, I stood here and said that we will continue to ensure that capacity is available. A lot of planning was undertaken and a lot of safeguards were put in place before the provisions were commenced. In addition, a lot of engagement took place between the secure accommodation providers, the Scottish Prison Service, Scottish Courts, Police Scotland and Social Work Scotland. We were ready for the provisions to be enacted.
As I said, I was deeply disappointed by the situation at St Mary’s Kenmure, which has exacerbated things, but I hope that, through my statement, I have given assurances about the actions that were taken to resolve the matter.
On the standards that children and young people can expect after secure care, those are contained in the secure care pathway and standards. All young people can expect those standards to be applied.
The member also asked about the four beds. I do not expect that provision to solve all the problems, but, as I said in my statement, that is one of a number of measures that we are taking to try to solve the issues with capacity. If there is anything that I have not touched on, I am more than happy to follow up with the member afterwards.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a statement by Natalie Don-Innes on Scotland’s secure accommodation capacity. The minister will take questions at the end of her...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)
SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to address the important issue of Scotland’s secure accommodation capacity. As Minister for Children, Young People and The ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
The minister will now take questions on the issues that were raised in her statement. I intend to allow about 20 minutes for that, after which we will need t...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I wish a happy new year to everyone in the chamber. I thank the minister for advance sight of her statement. During the passage of the Children (Care and Ju...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I thank Roz McCall for her questions—there was a lot in there. I do not necessarily agree with the suggestion that we have fallen at the first hurdle. With...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for her statement, which was requested before Christmas recess, along with an assurance that there was not going to be a capacity issue ...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
I can absolutely give that assurance. Given the situation before Christmas, the matter received a lot of attention. The problem has been alleviated, and, as ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
SNP
How does the situation in Scotland compare with the situation elsewhere in the United Kingdom?
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
The issue is faced across the UK. It is well known that placements across the rest of the UK are volatile, with children often placed in secure accommodation...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is good that the Care Inspectorate is satisfied with the improvements at St Mary’s Kenmure, but the original report highlighted “dangerously low” levels o...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
As I laid out in my statement, and referred to in response to other members’ questions, we regularly engage with St Mary’s Kenmure. Engagement with St Mary’s...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the minister’s statement and the reassurance about the current capacity in the system. What plans does the Government have to increase the capacity...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
As I set out in my statement, through a new secure care contingency plan, which was developed in collaboration with COSLA, Social Work Scotland and the Care ...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
It is concerning that the minister said in her statement that the Government has not yet established “a clear agreement on the minimum vacant secure care ca...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Ms McNeill is dealing with hypotheticals. Before Christmas, we were in a situation in which we had one place in secure care. I agreed that that was extremely...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
Many children and young people in secure care are vulnerable and have faced significant adverse childhood experiences. What is the Government doing to ensure...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Obviously, the quality of secure care is extremely important, but, in line with our work to keep the Promise, we want to use alternatives for children and yo...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I want to press the minister further on Martin Whitfield’s point. There is anxiety that those who might need a secure place on care or welfare grounds might ...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
We have our secure care pathways and standards, which relate to what a child or young person should expect before, during or after they are in secure care. I...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the work that the Government did through the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, particularly in ensuring that children and young people a...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
We wanted to prioritise that prior to the provisions in the bill being implemented. I felt that that was a very important issue that came out of the bill pro...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
It would be helpful, minister, if you addressed your remarks towards the microphone, although I know that it is counterintuitive when speaking to somebody be...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
Apologies, Presiding Officer.
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
A stage 3 amendment to the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill from my colleague Sue Webber, which was agreed to by the Parliament, ensures that a ch...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
The member has touched on amendments made to the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3. The member will be aware that the Government support...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
SNP
Regarding young people who are in secure care as a last resort, I would be grateful if the minister could say more about what the Scottish Government is doin...
Natalie Don-Innes
SNP
A number of initiatives are relevant to that. The Government is developing the national secure adolescent in-patient service for Scotland, known as Foxgrove,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Thank you, minister. That concludes this item of business.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance on how to place on record that the minister’s statement that, this morning, there were th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I think that you have answered your own question, Mr Whitfield: you have put that on the record. It is not a point of order. There will be a brief pause bef...