Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 17 April 2024
17 Apr 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021
On the day in 2021 when the bill was enacted, the SNP Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs was enjoying a nice jigsaw puzzle. Meanwhile, on our streets, overstretched police officers were dealing with a much harder challenge. Days ago, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland reported that Police Scotland officers feel unsafe and unable to do their jobs as they are constantly being told to do more with less, but those same exhausted officers are now being ordered by the SNP to police our speech. Hundreds of officers have still not been trained in the new law. Before the recess, the Criminal Justice Committee asked for the training material, but we were not given it—no wonder, as officers say that it is wholly inadequate.
The Scottish Police Federation deserves great credit for standing firm against the breathtaking Government spin. We keep being told that the tsunami of spurious complaints will have no detrimental impact on the investigation of real crimes. That is patently untrue, as federation officials have patiently explained. I despair at the Government’s sneering sense of moral superiority and failure to tackle the issues that truly matter.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12855, in the name of Russell Findlay, on repealing the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021. ...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Three years ago—
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I wonder if it is possible for you to clarify, given the terms of the motion that we are about to discuss, which is o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I thank the member for his point of order. That is the position as per the standing orders of Parliament, which I think that everybody is aware of. Please r...
Russell Findlay
Con
Thank you. In the sweepstake, I had a Keith Brown intervention after 30 seconds, not three seconds. Three years ago, Humza Yousaf was standing here in Parli...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
It seems that Mr Findlay has swallowed his own publicity on all of this. Does he think that the harassment and hate of disabled people is a real crime?
Russell Findlay
Con
That is a preposterous intervention. I am talking about the many thousands of crimes that have been deemed not to have been crimes at all—that is, the vast m...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance)
SNP
As a matter of factual accuracy, will Mr Findlay concede and put on the record that protection of freedom of expression is built into the legislation, includ...
Russell Findlay
Con
I will come on to that, but the cabinet secretary did not point out that there is no dwelling defence, which I will also come on to. Even before the act was...
Angela Constance
SNP
I am listening very carefully to your remarks. I am just waiting for you to come to the point at which you put on the record the existence of hate crime in t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Speak through the chair, please.
Russell Findlay
Con
On the day in 2021 when the bill was enacted, the SNP Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs was enjoying a nice jigsaw puzzle. Meanwhile, on our str...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Russell Findlay
Con
I am sorry, but I do not have time. Never mind plummeting education standards and classroom violence; never mind the tragedy of record numbers of drug death...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 will help us to target hate crime in Scotland and support those who are most affected by those crimes. F...
Russell Findlay
Con
Will the minister give way?
Siobhian Brown
SNP
I will come to Russell Findlay in a moment. The 2021 act introduced new offences for threatening or abusive behaviour and for the communication of threateni...
Russell Findlay
Con
I thank the minister for allowing me to intervene. The minister began by saying that she was about to reveal some misinformation from members in this chamber...
Siobhian Brown
SNP
I apologise to Mr Findlay, but I am going through my speech. I am not actually sure what he just asked me for. Interruption. The independent review—Interrup...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Members.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
—of hate crime by Lord Bracadale in 2018 that led to the act clearly stated the need for legislation in that it would help to recognise the impact of and har...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
On that point, I want to enable the minister to set the record straight. I am not sure what actions Police Scotland is taking to incorporate the precedent th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I will give you your time back, minister.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
First, non-crime incidents are not related to this act in any way. As we know, the recording of non-crime hate incidents is an approach across the whole of t...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The minister is bringing her remarks to a close.
Siobhian Brown
SNP
—and, if it was repealed, as the Conservative motion calls for, it would put back in its place legislation that would, once again, make blasphemy a common-la...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I take this opportunity to remind members that, using the new system, if a member seeks to make an intervention, they should press the relevant button on the...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Scottish Labour voted for the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill in good faith, and we supported many of the amendments—especially the amendments th...