Committee
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee 07 February 2024
07 Feb 2024 · S6 · Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Item of business
Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Good morning, and welcome to the fourth meeting in 2024 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. I remind all those members who are using electronic devices to please turn them to silent. Our business this morning is consideration of the Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. I welcome to the meeting Gillian Martin, Minister for Energy and the Environment, and her supporting officials.?I also welcome Colin Smyth and Edward Mountain.?I believe that John Mason and Stephen Kerr will be joining us later to speak to their amendments. Before we begin, I will briefly explain—if it is possible to do such a thing—the stage 2 procedure for members and the public. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in that group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call any other members who have lodged amendments in that group. Members who have not lodged amendments in the group but who wish to speak should catch my attention. If the minister has not already spoken on the group of amendments, I will then invite her to contribute to the debate. The debate on the group will be concluded by me inviting the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up. Following the debate on each group, I will check whether the member who moved the first amendment in the group wishes to press it to a vote or to withdraw it. If they wish to press ahead, I will put the question on that amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw their amendment after it has been moved, they must seek the agreement of other members to do so. If any member objects, the committee will immediately move to the vote on the amendment. If a member does not want to move their amendment when called, they should say, “Not moved.” Please note that any other member present may move the amendment. If no one moves the amendment, I will immediately call the next amendment on the marshalled list. Only committee members are allowed to vote. Voting in any division is by show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands clearly raised until the clerk has recorded the vote. The committee is required to indicate formally that it has considered and agreed to each section of the bill, so I will put a question on each section at the appropriate point. It is unlikely that we will conclude stage 2 at today’s meeting. If we do not, we will do so at our next meeting. Section 1—Offence of using glue trap
In the same item of business
The Convener (Finlay Carson)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the fourth meeting in 2024 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. I remind all those members who are using electronic devic...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 176, in the name of Edward Mountain, is grouped with amendments 106, 4, 107, 108 and 5 to 7.
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I am pleased to be here to speak to my amendments. Before I do so, I will make a full declaration of my interests, so that people are aware of them. I have a...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Amendment 106 relates to the wording of the offence of using a glue trap in section 1 of the bill. A glue trap, as we know, is intended as a restraining trap...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Green
I put on the record my sympathy for the intention behind Colin Smyth’s amendments 107 and 108. Glue traps are inhumane and indiscriminate as a pest control t...
The Minister for Energy and the Environment (Gillian Martin)
SNP
Edward Mountain’s amendment 176 would allow members of the public to use glue traps to control rats and mice in educational, catering or medical premises. Th...
The Convener
Con
I call Edward Mountain to wind up and indicate whether he wishes to press or withdraw amendment 176.
Edward Mountain
Con
In some ways, I am actually encouraged by what I have heard this morning, but I would still like to make a few comments in response to what the minister has ...
The Convener
Con
Would you like to comment, minister?
Gillian Martin
SNP
I think that I have made it clear that I am sympathetic to the argument that there might be some settings where we cannot have an infestation and where pest ...
Edward Mountain
Con
On that basis, with the hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel, I am prepared to work with the minister to see if my amendments can be reviewed to...
Colin Smyth
Lab
I am grateful to the minister for her clarity on the definition of “taking” and for the offer to include further information in the explanatory notes. On tha...
Edward Mountain
Con
I will not move amendment 4 on the basis of my earlier explanation. Amendment 4 not moved.
Colin Smyth
Lab
I am grateful to the minister for the offer to work on a possible amendment at stage 3 on the issue covered by amendment 107. On that basis, I will not move ...
Edward Mountain
Con
I will not move amendment 5 for the reasons that I gave earlier. Amendment 5 not moved. Section 2 agreed to. After section 2
Edward Mountain
Con
I am looking forward to fruitful discussions with the minister. Therefore, I am not moving amendments 6 or 7. Amendments 6 and 7 not moved. Section 3 agree...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 54, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 54A, 54B, 54C, 54D, 54E, 54F, 54G, 54H, 54I and 54J.
Gillian Martin
SNP
My amendment 54 seeks to introduce a comprehensive ban on the use of snares, as is recommended by the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission. The amendment intro...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Gillian Martin
SNP
Can I finish my points?
Rachael Hamilton
Con
Yes—sorry. I thought that you had not heard me.
Gillian Martin
SNP
You never know; perhaps I will cover what it is you want to raise, so let me get to the end of my rationale for this.
Rachael Hamilton
Con
My intervention was about a previous issue.
Gillian Martin
SNP
In my view, although humane cable restraints might be an incremental improvement on the traditional style of snare, they do not lead to a significant reducti...
Rachael Hamilton
Con
It is on a previous point, minister. Thank you for taking the intervention. You talked about the ban on snares in Wales, but the fact is that Welsh minister...
Gillian Martin
SNP
Ms Hamilton mentioned a challenge, but there is always the risk of a challenge to any legislation that goes through a Parliament. People are free to challeng...
Rachael Hamilton
Con
Can I get clarification specifically on that?
Gillian Martin
SNP
Convener, I would like to go on and discuss the amendments in Colin Smyth’s name, because I think that I have answered Rachael Hamilton’s points.
The Convener
Con
Yes. Rachael, you will have an opportunity to come in when I call for general views from members.
Rachael Hamilton
Con
Thank you, convener.