Committee
Education, Children and Young People Committee 07 February 2024
07 Feb 2024 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Is proposed new section 90B expected to extend to transportation of young people by justice services? I am not talking about transportation between secure accommodation or to or from secure accommodation, but about transportation by law enforcement officers during the course of their duties.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Sue Webber)
Con
Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2024 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is day 3 of our co...
The Convener
Con
The question is, that amendment 210 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
Con
There will be a division. For Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Webber, Su...
The Convener
Con
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 210 disagreed to. Amendment 211 moved—Pam Duncan-Glancy.
The Convener
Con
The question is, that amendment 211 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
Con
There will be a division. For Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Webber, Su...
The Convener
Con
The result of the division is: For 4, Against 5, Abstentions 0. Amendment 211 disagreed to.
The Convener
Con
The first group of amendments is on secure transportation. Amendment 212, in the name of Ross Greer, is grouped with amendments 162 and 163.
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I thank the “Hope instead of handcuffs” campaign, the minister and her officials for their help with amendment 212. It was a bit of a revelation to all comm...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Is proposed new section 90B expected to extend to transportation of young people by justice services? I am not talking about transportation between secure ac...
Ross Greer
Green
My expectation is that the provision would cover all providers of secure transport for young people. That is a long-winded way of saying yes—I believe that i...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I realise that the issue that I am about to raise would probably be for the regulation stage. Some people argue that restraint should almost be excluded com...
Ross Greer
Green
I have a lot of sympathy with those who wish restraint to be eliminated from the system completely. I think that we all want a system in which there are no s...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Good morning to members, the minister and her officials. I, too, have been working with the “Hope instead of handcuffs” campaign over a number of years on ho...
The Minister for Children, Young People and Keeping the Promise (Natalie Don)
SNP
I thank Ross Greer and Miles Briggs for lodging their amendments. Secure transport of children is a very important matter, and a range of work is on-going in...
Ross Greer
Green
I welcome the minister’s commitment to Miles Briggs to look more at data collection. Mr Briggs and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland have...
The Convener
Con
Section 23 is on secure accommodation. Amendment 108, in the name of Roz McCall, is grouped with amendments 109, 221, 155, 156, 110, 111, 213 and 157 to 161.
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Amendments 108 and 109 are probing amendments, and they follow on from other amendments that have been lodged and discussed. They are on concerns about separ...
The Convener
Con
Now, breaking with tradition, I call myself, Sue Webber, to speak to an amendment in my name. Amendment 221, which I lodged after last week’s committee meet...
Miles Briggs
Con
I start by paying tribute to and thanking a number of people who have helped to shape my amendments: Beth Morrison and her son, Calum, who have been working ...
Natalie Don
SNP
I understand that some committee members, in their scrutiny of the bill, have highlighted concerns about children who have committed an offence being placed ...
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP)
SNP
We have had some discussions with the Government around the nature of risk. I made an observation on that when we were going through the Gender Recognition R...
Natalie Don
SNP
I certainly can provide those reassurances. I will be getting on to some of those matters, which are covered in my notes. I will get back to those, but I wil...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
My understanding is that the Care Inspectorate guidelines would prevent the sharing of spaces in the way that the minister has described. To build on Michel...
Natalie Don
SNP
I have not personally discussed the issue with the Care Inspectorate, but those conversations have taken place at official level. In the light of committee c...
The Convener
Con
I am curious to know what is in the wording of my amendment that would preclude your supporting it when you have said at length that a ministerial process is...
Natalie Don
SNP
The wording does not necessarily describe the behaviour.
The Convener
Con
The behaviour is rather irrelevant when I say that it is about a child who has caused harm and a child who has been harmed. Making a descriptor of behaviour ...
Natalie Don
SNP
Our issue is about the definition of the offence. Behaviour is not necessarily negative. The amendment would not be workable in law, essentially. I am happy ...
The Convener
Con
The amendment says that it is about offence or behaviour.