Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 30 January 2024
30 Jan 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
European Union
We will seek to fix the Tories’ Brexit mess. I will come to the details of how we want to have greater co-operation with our European partners.
However, the SNP wants to ignore the inconvenient truth about the customs union that we have with the rest of the UK, and the fact that we share a land border, a currency and so many institutions with it. Angus Robertson talked earlier about how big and important the single market was, but he neglected to mention that the UK makes up 61 per cent of Scotland’s export market.
The SNP’s plans would make Brexit look like a cakewalk. What is more, the Scottish Government’s own analysis indicates that for an independent Scotland to join the EU, it would take years—possibly many, many years—of complex negotiations. The Scottish Government should be honest about those trade-offs and about the costs—
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-12004, in the name of Angus Robertson, on Scotland’s place in the European Union. I invite members who wi...
The Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture (Angus Robertson)
SNP
Tomorrow marks the fourth anniversary of Scotland being taken out of the European Union. Scotland was not only removed from the EU but forced out of the sing...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I think that the minister will be bored with his own speech, given that he has made the same one several times before. Nevertheless, has he drawn together an...
Angus Robertson
SNP
Willie Rennie knows that the European Union single market is, as I think that I am right in saying, seven times larger than the United Kingdom’s. Unlike him,...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Angus Robertson
SNP
I want to make a bit more progress on this point, but I will give way later to Mr Bibby. The EU market is seven times the size of the UK—almost 450 million...
Neil Bibby
Lab
I am not sure what the Scottish National Party’s position on the customs union is, because, in 2019, during the Brexit votes, it did not vote in favour of a ...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I agreed at that time that people should have a view and should be able to cast a vote in favour of the European Union. That was my support for there being a...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angus Robertson
SNP
I am going to finish this point. We can continue down that road or we can seek to emulate the success of comparable independent countries in Europe that are ...
Alexander Stewart
Con
We know that Scotland’s exports are three times those of the EU. The London School of Economics and Political Science centre for economic performance has tal...
Angus Robertson
SNP
I noticed that Alexander Stewart was not prepared to reflect on the relative economic decline of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, as clearly demo...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Members will wish to know that there is time in hand for interventions. We will be as generous as possible in that regard. I call Donald Cameron to speak to...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
The title of this debate is “An independent Scotland in the EU”.
The Minister for Independence (Jamie Hepburn)
SNP
I just want to correct the record. That is not the title of the debate. It is “Scotland’s place in the European Union”. That will be an important point as th...
Donald Cameron
Con
I thank Jamie Hepburn for that very important intervention. Here we are, yet again, debating a hypothetical wrapped in speculation inside a misconception, t...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Mr Cameron has listed a lot of worthy things that we would all like to do, but does he recognise that the Centre for European Reform has estimated that Brexi...
Donald Cameron
Con
Of course, an independent Scotland would incur huge costs and, like many of his fellow party members, Kevin Stewart is incapable of recognising the severe ec...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary is a fan of fantasy football, as I am. If he is not, I encourage him to become one, because he would be better sp...
Angus Robertson
SNP
When Mr Bibby intervened on me earlier, I asked him what the Scottish Labour Party’s position was. He was not able, or not prepared, to answer then, so will ...
Neil Bibby
Lab
We will seek to fix the Tories’ Brexit mess. I will come to the details of how we want to have greater co-operation with our European partners. However, the...
Jamie Hepburn
SNP
Will the member give way on that point?
Neil Bibby
Lab
No—I have to make progress. People need change, and that process can start by booting out the Tories and electing a UK Labour Government. Labour has set o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
I call Willie Rennie to speak to and move amendment S6M-12004.3. 14:52
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I always listen very carefully to the cabinet secretary. However, the more I listened to him this afternoon, the more I heard echoes of Jacob Rees-Mogg. That...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie
LD
No, not just now. I am just making this very powerful argument. Laughter. I remember that Alex Salmond was more obsessed with attacking the UK Government t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate. 15:00
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
I tried to intervene on Mr Rennie when he was making his argument about what we spent on the EU referendum. He forgets that we won that referendum in Scotlan...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
The last time I debated one of the prospectus for independence papers, we were discussing the creation of a modern constitution for an independent Scotland. ...