Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 13 December 2023
13 Dec 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Unfortunately, we do not really have any time in hand this afternoon, due to the pressure of business at the back end of the afternoon, so I require members to stick broadly to their time limits. I call Willie Rennie. You have up to six minutes, Mr Rennie.
15:21In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11635, in the name of Liam Kerr, on improving the performance of the Scottish education system. I invite ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Last week saw the publication of the programme for international student assessment, or PISA, statistics. They are a four-yearly analysis of almost 700,000 1...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
SNP
I agree with Liam Kerr that what is measured matters. Does he therefore accept that statistics such as those from PISA, although they are important, make ver...
Liam Kerr
Con
No, I simply cannot accept that, because we are measuring maths, science and reading. We can measure the trends over a very long time and there are, in fact,...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Does Liam Kerr agree with the conclusion that the OECD reached in 2021, that curriculum for excellence was the right approach and the failing has been in imp...
Liam Kerr
Con
Yes, I do. The chamber is on board with the principle of curriculum for excellence, but implementation, particularly under the current Government, has all to...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
I hear from teachers that the incidence of classroom violence is driving them out of the education system. That is why we are losing so many valued high-qual...
Liam Kerr
Con
That is right. It is certainly what I hear, and I am sure that it is what all members hear. Perhaps the cabinet secretary will elaborate on why reform of Ed...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)
SNP
I am grateful to the Conservatives for bringing this debate on Scottish education to the chamber. There have been a number of updates to Parliament in recent...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
The cabinet secretary is right to trust our teachers. They are graduate professionals who know their job and, more importantly, know the children they teach....
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I will come to the PISA results, which I spoke to yesterday in my update to Parliament. The PISA results are important in giving the whole picture of progres...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
What is the reason for the considerable gap between the PISA results and the ACEL results?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
They are two different data sets. The ACEL results are predicated on teacher judgment and the PISA results are predicated on survey data. That means that, if...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I would like to make some progress, if the member does not mind. In the same cohort, 93 per cent left school with one or more qualifications at SCQF level 4...
Liam Kerr
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am happy to do so. Presiding Officer, can I check whether there is time in hand?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I can give you a little bit of time back.
Liam Kerr
Con
Surely what PISA is telling us is not that, in the past few years, Scotland has somehow flatlined. It is saying that, over a considerable period, there has b...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am reiterating—I have stated this previously—that, based on the 2022 survey results, our results in maths and science remain similar to the OECD average. I...
Liam Kerr
Con
Will the minister give way?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I would like to make some progress, and I believe that I have no time in hand.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I gave you nine minutes; I can probably give you 10 minutes.
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. On Monday, the Cabinet visited Haddington for a public meeting. As George Adam observed following the meeting, the best and mo...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome this debate because it comes at a time when there is a consensus in education that enough is enough. In the past week, a range of statistics have l...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
Do I have time, Deputy Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I am afraid that the member is just concluding.
Pam Duncan-Glancy
Lab
I am sorry. I have only half a minute left. The situation cannot go on. We need to create a system that empowers young people to reach their potential. That...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Unfortunately, we do not really have any time in hand this afternoon, due to the pressure of business at the back end of the afternoon, so I require members ...