Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 31 May 2023
31 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (National Discussion)
Thank you very much.
Well, there we have it—that was the response from the cabinet secretary. But this Government is now in its 17th year in office. It cannot hide its record on education behind the national discussion. That is my point. My message to Jenny Gilruth and her colleagues is straightforward: please listen. Listen to what people are saying is going wrong and act on it. The final report “All Learners in Scotland Matter: The National Discussion on Education”, which I have read—and which, by the way, I think we should have published long before 10 to 3, but that is a separate matter—is what the people of Scotland are telling us loud and clear. That is why the report should, in fact, make these ministers feel very uncomfortable indeed.
I repeat that we are in the 17th year of a Government that said that education was its number 1 priority.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-09123, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on let’s talk education—the national discussion. 14:56
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)
SNP
I am pleased to lead a debate during Scottish Government time on our national discussion on education. Professor Ken Muir’s review, “Putting Learners at the ...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I thank the cabinet secretary for the open-door approach that she has adopted so far in her new position. She will have seen that additional support needs ge...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Cabinet secretary, I can give you the time back.
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I thank Willie Rennie for his point. I will come on to talk about the challenge that is presented in the report in relation to the issue that he addressed. H...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary has just read out a statement of her objectives or whether she is trying to reflect reality. I hope that it is th...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
Heaven forfend that I do not live up to Mr Kerr’s expectations. In all seriousness, the vision that I have set out to Parliament is the vision from the docum...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I have just left a round-table meeting on children with additional support needs. One comment that was made was that the only certain thing in education is r...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am happy to give Pam Duncan-Glancy absolute reassurance on that. We need to move forward at pace on reform, but we also need to ensure that we continue to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I call Stephen Kerr to speak to and to move amendment S6M-09213.3, for around nine minutes. 15:10
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
As I tried to intervene on the cabinet secretary to say, it is important that we have an honest discussion about where we are in Scotland with our education ...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am more than happy to do that, but Stephen Kerr needs to reflect on the fact that the national discussion did not come about in relation to the current Fir...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I would encourage interventions to be a little briefer, not only from the cabinet secretary but also from Mr Kerr himself. Mr Kerr, I can give you some of t...
Stephen Kerr
Con
Thank you very much. Well, there we have it—that was the response from the cabinet secretary. But this Government is now in its 17th year in office. It cann...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Does Stephen Kerr agree that, after 17 years, it should be of extreme concern that the young people who responded to the consultation expressed a fear about ...
Stephen Kerr
Con
I will quote from paragraph 9.3 of the report: “We heard many concerns about whether the National Discussion would lead to genuine action and significant ch...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member welcome the fact that, on the most recent data, a record number of young people—95.7 per cent—are leaving Scottish education to go to positiv...
Stephen Kerr
Con
I welcome positive destinations, but, under the definition that the Government uses, positive destinations can mean just about anything. The information is t...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Stephen Kerr
Con
I do not know whether I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I will give you a little time back, if Ross Greer is brief.
Ross Greer
Green
I strongly agree with the need for more autonomy in schools. The member may be familiar with proposals that were made in the past parliamentary session for a...
Stephen Kerr
Con
The best leaders in any walks of life are those who lead teams of people. That is a fact, so I do not disagree with that. Secondly, there is a great deal ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
It is always a privilege to open for Scottish Labour to discuss education. The education system is where children grow and learn, and it is the foundation of...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)
LD
I will read an abridged quotation from the report. It states: “In my class of 30, 4 have ASD ... 3 ... have long-standing separation anxiety difficulties .....
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
SNP
Mr Rennie actually quoted from the part of the report from which I was going to quote. I very much agree about the presumption about mainstream education, bu...
Willie Rennie
LD
To be frank, I do not know. I hear reports of teachers who really struggle to cope with a variety of demands. I think that they would love to have great dive...
John Swinney
SNP
I think that Willie Rennie has alighted on a very serious issue about the length of contracts that are given to newly qualified teachers. Does he acknowledge...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I can give you some of that time back.
Willie Rennie
LD
I think that John Swinney is right. There is a partnership that involves working with local authorities to make this work. The Government did make an improve...