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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 May 2023

09 May 2023 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Trauma-informed Justice for Victims and Witnesses
Baker, Claire Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Although I welcome the debate and the publication of “Trauma Informed Justice: A Knowledge and Skills Framework for Working with Victims and Witnesses”, the cabinet secretary will recognise that the focus of debate over the past few days has been the publication of the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill—indeed, I heard her on “Good Morning Scotland” this morning. I will direct some of my comments to the bill, but the framework, which was published on Friday, is a welcome contribution to the aim of improving the experience of victims and witnesses in the justice system.

Victims of crime, particularly victims of violent and sexual crimes, have described feeling let down and retraumatised by their experience of going through the criminal justice system. The adversarial system involves victims reliving and being challenged on their experiences in the courts, but that is often not what they expect.

The backlog of cases is a significant issue that must be addressed. Delays to justice are, in themselves, traumatising and stressful for victims. In research for the victims task force, people describe the process as like being in limbo. The anticipation of going to court and the anxiety that comes from waiting to go through the process add to the stress and trauma of being prepared to give evidence and have your case brought before the courts. The Scottish Government must tackle court backlogs and properly resource the legal system if the aspirations that are set out in the framework are to be a reality.

Trauma-informed justice is a necessary starting point for improving the experience of victims, but the next steps should include expanding independent legal representation for victims in cases of rape. That is, to a limited extent, included in the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, which will provide an opportunity to explore the merits of the approach further, as my colleague Katy Clark outlined. In particular, the way in which victims of sexual crimes are treated through the courts, through the investigation and by the media is a concern that I have raised a number of times in Parliament. All those experiences contribute to the trauma that victims experience.

There is broad support in the Parliament for improving the experience of victims and witnesses, particularly in sexual offence cases, and a recognition of the retraumatising impact for victims of experiencing the current system, but the framework that was published last week needs to demonstrate how a trauma-informed approach will be embedded throughout the justice system and how it will lead to a consistent approach for vulnerable witnesses. In her opening speech, the cabinet secretary referred to the role of the bill on that point. The recently published bill also needs to be clear how proposals such as a dedicated sexual offences court will better serve victims.

However, trauma-informed practice will not deliver justice for victims of sexual assault and rape alone. There are persistently lower conviction rates for rape and attempted rape. In Scotland, the most recent figures show that 51 per cent of rape and attempted rape cases result in a conviction, compared with an overall conviction rate of 91 per cent. In 2021, 2,176 rapes were reported to the police, but only 152 of those came to prosecution and just 78 led to a conviction. That is in the context of less than 20 per cent of victims of rape reporting the incident to the police. That is unacceptable.

Rape is a crime that is overwhelming committed against women, by men, and it is a crime that causes extreme distress and trauma, yet it remains difficult to bring it forward to a case and even when it is, it is difficult to successfully convict. Rape is a crime that is often not even recognised as a crime, and one where there is a reasonable likelihood of there being no consequences for the perpetrator. To focus on the bill, would changing to a single-judge trial improve that situation?

The Government must be clear about what defines a successful pilot. International comparisons tend not to show an increased conviction rate, but they demonstrate a more empathetic approach to the case that is victim centred. Will a measure of success be how efficient the change is in reducing delays and delivering quicker decisions? The Government’s proposal is for the judge to issue a reasoning of the decision, which is not required from a jury. How will the victim’s experience be measured and how will that be part of the evaluation? I have some concerns that leaving the detail of pilots to secondary legislation will make it harder for the Government to grow consensus, and the question of what is to be gained from the pilots needs to be answered.

In recent years, there have been two cases in which women have taken their case to the civil courts in the pursuit of justice and to have the offence—the crime—acknowledged. That is not the appropriate route, given the severity of the crime. I have previously raised concerns—following the case of Denise Clair, who bravely waived anonymity to speak about her experience—that women would resort to civil courts. In 2018, Miss M successfully sued Stephen Coxen in a Scottish civil court, with the sheriff saying that the evidence against Coxen was “compelling and persuasive”. That followed a not proven verdict in 2016 and was the first time that someone who had been cleared in a criminal trial was subsequently sued. There is a lesser burden of proof in a civil case, but for women to be resorting to that route indicates that the current system is not working as it should.

Although the framework may improve the experience of victims and witnesses, it requires that action from all partners is co-ordinated and that there is a shared understanding of what it means to be person centred and trauma informed. There are clear advantages for the justice system if witnesses are supported and listened to in a supportive environment, so the cabinet secretary will need to work hard to ensure that that is a priority of the courts and that the objective is shared. For example, Rape Crisis Scotland has repeatedly called for specialist training for judges and sheriffs who preside over sexual offences and mandatory training for legal representatives involved in sexual offence cases. It is important that the introduction of the framework addresses those calls.

16:13  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-08865, in the name of Angela Constance, entitled “Transforming Justice in Scotland—Person-centred and Tra...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
It is a privilege to lead this debate, which is my first as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, Keith Br...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her first debate as Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. On the point about when someone is released from pris...
Angela Constance SNP
The member raises an important point about the quality and frequency of engagement with victims throughout their justice journey. He may be aware that an ind...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Jamie Greene to speak to and move amendment S6M-08865.1. 15:29
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I know that you would have wanted to speak in today’s debate but are prohibited from doing so. I welcome the cabinet se...
John Swinney (Perthshire North) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Jamie Greene Con
I would love to, if I had some extra time, but I am really short.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back.
Jamie Greene Con
In that case, I would be happy to hear Mr Swinney.
John Swinney SNP
I am interested in the development of the member’s argument, because he is in danger of arguing at cross purposes with himself, which I am surprised about, b...
Jamie Greene Con
Let me respond by quoting something to Mr Swinney: “Undermining the foundations of the Scottish justice system to increase conviction rates is a dangerous a...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to speak to the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name. I thank everyone who has contributed t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Clark. I have been informed that because you are not a signatory to the amendment, you need to indicate your support for the amendment before y...
Katy Clark Lab
I am happy to move the amendment in Pauline McNeill’s name.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Will you say that you support it?
Katy Clark Lab
I definitely support the amendment. I move, amendment S6M-08865.2, to insert at end: “; further notes recent reports of poor experiences of victims within ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That is a new one for me, too. I call Beatrice Wishart, who joins us online. 15:45
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I thank the Deputy Presiding Officer for granting me permission to leave the debate early, and I apologise to members for having to do so. On behalf of Scot...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move on to the open debate. I inform colleagues that there is absolutely no time in hand, so I would be grateful if all members could stick to their alloc...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. Scotland’s justice system is on the verge of transformation, with changes that I believe will finally put v...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the cabinet secretary to her new role. I am honoured to be contributing on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives to today’s debate on transfo...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I am happy to speak to the Government motion and to support the vision of a just, safe and resilient Scotland that puts victims and witnesses at the heart of...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Although I welcome the debate and the publication of “Trauma Informed Justice: A Knowledge and Skills Framework for Working with Victims and Witnesses”, the ...
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
First, I want to acknowledge the bravery of all victims and witnesses who have lived through trauma and experienced the criminal justice system. They deserve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Maggie Chapman, who is joining us remotely. 16:19
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I refer colleagues to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I begin by expressing my heartfelt thanks to all the people who are involved in suppor...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
In the past few years, the complex challenges of the justice system have been widely discussed in this Parliament. That system and our legal processes face c...
Audrey Nicoll SNP
I have listened to the member’s comments about some of the challenges in the Scottish justice system. Does she agree that those are not unique to Scotland? A...
Meghan Gallacher Con
The SNP has been in Government for 15 years, so we might think that it would have put victims at the heart of its programme for government by now. We are see...