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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 22 March 2022

22 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

If Mr Fairlie thinks that the current scheme is so perfect, I do not understand why the Government has promised to bring forward legislation to change it, when it is failing to deliver—[Interruption.] I think that Mr Fairlie wants to keep having a debate. I am happy to do so. I think that changes are needed; so does his Government.

The members of the food coalition recognise that our food policies are not perfect and that we need to find a better and fairer way to feed ourselves that does not damage our people or our environment. The Parliament has an opportunity to recognise that as well, but only if we get the bill right.

I recognise that we have come a long way—somewhat slowly—since the publication in 2014 of the national food and drink policy. I recall being told by ministers when I was first elected that we did not really need legislation to become a good food nation and, time and again, I have had voted down motion after motion calling for the right to food to be enshrined in law. However, thanks to the tenacity and unity of purpose of members of the food coalition and many others, we now have a bill and, at least, the promise of the right to food.

However, it is clear that the bill does not go far enough. What should be an historic opportunity to transform Scotland’s food system, and to reduce food insecurity by ensuring that everyone has access to healthy and sustainable food, is in danger of being a missed opportunity. It is the political equivalent of standing in front of an open goal and belting the ball over the bar from six yards. The Government says that it is a framework bill, but it is an empty frame without a vision. Labour is clear: that vision, the purpose of the bill, should ultimately be to enable the right to food—and the bill should say that. As the United Nations special rapporteur, Professor Michael Fakhri, told the committee, when giving evidence on 28 February,

“If the good food bill is strengthened and infused with human rights commitments, Scotland will stand out as one of the leading nations that seek to promote and realise the right to food for its people”.

That view is shared by the overwhelming majority who gave evidence to the committee. In its written submission, the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland said that it was

“disappointed that the Bill did not take this opportunity to embed the right to food into Scots Law.”

Although it acknowledged that the Government has said that it wants to embed that right within wider human rights legislation, it went on to say:

“that is no reason not to start now”

and indicate

“how seriously Scotland takes both the right to food and human rights.”

Scottish Labour believes that the bill should be unambiguous in its purpose to ultimately enable the right to food. We will work with the Government on how best to achieve that. We support the widespread calls to amend the bill in five key areas: to define its purpose; to have clear and measurable objectives; to establish an independent food commission; to strengthen the parliamentary scrutiny process; and to ensure that ministers have a duty to act in accordance with a national good food nation plan, rather than simply having regard to it. I hope that the Government will work with all parties to enable those amendments, because I believe that we can show unity behind a strong bill.

One challenge is the fact that the Government has not published a response to the committee’s stage 1 report, so we are not yet clear what amendments it will bring forward in the very short time between stage 1 and stage 2. If the Government does not bring forward amendments in those five areas, Labour will do so.

I will take each of those areas in turn. Like the overwhelming majority of respondents to the committee, we believe that the bill should have a purpose clause, which should include giving practical effect to the right to food. As WWF said in its written submission, the bill

“should establish high-level policy principles and objectives for ... Scotland’s food system, providing the overarching framework for what a Good Food Nation means in practice.”

It is encouraging that the committee has urged the Scottish Government to include high-level objectives at stage 2, but we believe that it should go further—they should not only be in the bill, but be measurable.

In evidence to the committee on 26 January, the Trussell Trust highlighted that child poverty targets were put in the Child Poverty (Scotland) Act 2017, which focused the sector on a unified goal and maintained momentum. Does anybody seriously think that the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Act 2019 should not have had a measurable commitment to net zero by 2045? Why should we not show the same ambition and have clear legally binding targets when it comes to tackling food poverty or childhood obesity?

The bill needs to set a clear direction for future policy. Voluntary Health Scotland said in its written submission that the bill

“should establish high-level policy principles and objectives for fixing Scotland’s food system”,

and that that should

“inform and underpin all future food-related legislation and policy—including but not limited to the ... Agriculture Bill, the Circular Economy Bill, the Environment Bill and future public health measures on food.”

That important point was also made by RSPB and OneKind, which rightly highlighted that animal welfare should be prioritised in the bill and future policy.

Labour shares the view that the bill should provide a more comprehensive oversight function. As Scottish Environment LINK argued in its written submission, the lack of an oversight function

“means that a vital piece of the jigsaw is missing”.

We support the call from the Scottish Food Coalition for an independent Scottish food commission. In its evidence to the committee on 19 January, it highlighted the example of the Scottish Land Commission. The view that the role should be undertaken by a new body was also backed by the Scottish Human Rights Commission, which made the valid point in its written evidence that allocating the role to an existing body

“is likely to underestimate the scale of work involved and the specialisms required to deliver it.”

The way in which the bill is scrutinised by Parliament needs to be clear. We believe that the national good food nation plan should ultimately require the approval of Parliament.

We share the view that the well-worn legislative phrase requiring ministers to “have regard to” their own national good food nation plan should be replaced with “act in accordance with”.

For far too long, too many people in Scotland have lacked adequate access to food, exposing the gross inequalities that we face today. In a nation that provides so much outstanding food and drink, it really is to our shame that many children in Scotland still go to bed hungry.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-03704, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish t...
The Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and Islands (Mairi Gougeon) SNP
Scotland began its journey to becoming a good food nation in 2014 with the publication of our national food and drink policy, which first set down the Govern...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The minister just said that Scotland has moved to being a good food nation, but how does that equate with the fact that Scotland is the second-most obese cou...
Mairi Gougeon SNP
We certainly have moved forward but, as I will set out, the bill will provide a framework to underpin the work that we are doing and which we will undertake ...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The committee expected a proper response to the report at stage 1, and we were disappointed that we did not get it. We kept our side of the bargain by keepin...
Mairi Gougeon SNP
I hope that the member appreciates that it is only fair that I give the report and all the work that has gone into it full and due consideration, which I am ...
Brian Whittle Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Mairi Gougeon SNP
Not at this point. However, I note that members concluded that the Government should consider how we might better reflect our high-level objectives in the b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you very much, cabinet secretary. I advise members that we are quite tight for time, so interventions will probably have to be accommodated into speaki...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am pleased to speak to the committee’s stage 1 report on the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill this afternoon, although I am not pleased that the reason tha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Please bring your remarks to a close, Ms Wishart.
Beatrice Wishart LD
I had something to say about the financial memorandum costs. Suffice it to say that the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill offers a real opportunity to transfo...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
The Scottish National Party is finally introducing its promised Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill, six years late, after having promised it in its 2016 and 20...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) SNP
Does the member not recognise that poverty is as big a driver of food inequality as anything else?
Rachael Hamilton Con
Of course it is a driver. However, when I posted about education on my Twitter account, Mr Fairlie, you said that you fully supported that, so I am surprised...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Speak through the chair, please, Ms Hamilton.
Rachael Hamilton Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. You Can Cook, which is based in Peebles in the Borders, offers classes, demonstrations, talks and workshops on food and health...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the committee for its extensive gathering of evidence to inform its stage 1 report. Like the committee, Labour is happy to support the principles of ...
Jim Fairlie SNP
I simply do not understand the member saying that the farming system is continuing to degrade our countryside, given that there are numerous schemes to help ...
Colin Smyth Lab
If Mr Fairlie thinks that the current scheme is so perfect, I do not understand why the Government has promised to bring forward legislation to change it, wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude now.
Colin Smyth Lab
We have a long way to go to make sure that the bill is a bold good food nation bill, but we support its principles and we will work with the Government and a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:43
Jenni Minto (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP
The Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill is the first piece of legislation that I have been involved in, and I thank the committee clerks and my fellow committee...
Rachael Hamilton Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Jenni Minto SNP
I will not. Serving attractive food in schools and other institutions will allow us to offer many more people the opportunity of eating together and sharing...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill touches several different policy areas. Today, I will focus my comments on the bill’s potential for driving progress on ...
The Minister for Environment and Land Reform (Màiri McAllan) SNP
I invite the member to reflect on his point about food security, given that it is his party, in government in the UK, that is signing post-Brexit trade deals...
Maurice Golden Con
I am quite surprised by that intervention, because every part of the UK is set to benefit from those trade agreements. In 2020, Scotland exported £126 millio...
Mairi Gougeon SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?