Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 03 March 2022
03 Mar 2022 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill
First, I thank Meghan Gallacher for her tone and for her offer of constructive scrutiny. That is very welcome.
Concerns about women’s rights and safety are of course sincerely held, and in my statement I have not suggested otherwise. We—I—have listened to those concerns. I understand them. That is one of the reasons why I am making this extended statement.
However, as legislators, we must always look at the evidence. The evidence is critical in relation to this issue. As I said my statement, all the evidence shows that the threat to the safety of women and girls comes from predatory and abusive men, not from the trans community.
In addition, if we look at the experience of the 10 countries that have in place similar processes—Ireland, for example, has had such provisions for seven years—we see no evidence that some of the fears that Meghan Gallacher outlined have come to pass. We have to look at the evidence. I am sure that the Parliament will do that, collectively, through its committee work and through our cross-party work. We must make sure that we look at the evidence. However, I welcome the member’s tone.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a statement by Shona Robison on the introduction of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. Before I call the cabinet se...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government (Shona Robison)
SNP
I have introduced the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, which proposes reforms to simplify the process for trans men and women to obtain a gender re...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 30 minutes for questions, after which we will m...
Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for providing advance sight of her statement. On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I welcome the tone of the cabinet secr...
Shona Robison
SNP
First, I thank Meghan Gallacher for her tone and for her offer of constructive scrutiny. That is very welcome. Concerns about women’s rights and safety are ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, thank the cabinet secretary for advanced sight of the statement and for her tone. This is about rights. The Parliament has been bold before—for exam...
Shona Robison
SNP
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for her remarks and for her questions. It has taken time to get to this point, and I think that we all understand the reasons: the...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I thank the cabinet secretary whole-heartedly for her statement, which is most welcome, as is the legislation that she has introduced. I also thank her for h...
Shona Robison
SNP
Yes, I would agree with that. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for his questions and the tone of his contribution. It is important that we listen to the experienc...
Joe FitzPatrick (Dundee City West) (SNP)
SNP
As has been said, the debate around gender recognition can at times involve the use of language that some people can find hurtful and derogatory. Following o...
Shona Robison
SNP
Yes, I do, and I think that we have made a good start on that, through your remarks, Presiding Officer—if you do not mind me saying that—and the tone of the ...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The Equality and Human Rights Commission said that simplifying the law on gender could have consequences for data collection, participation and drug testing ...
Shona Robison
SNP
Yes. However, we continue to consider the impact of the bill, and the Parliament will do so as part of its evidence gathering and scrutiny of that evidence. ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I was glad to hear the cabinet secretary highlight that transgender people face harassment for living their lives and that some social media comments are jus...
Shona Robison
SNP
Yes, I agree with that. Trans people just want to be able to get on with their lives, as part of society, without facing prejudice and harassment. They want ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
I want to ask about the interaction between section 22 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the 2010 act exceptions. The consultation on the draft bill not...
Shona Robison
SNP
First, guidance will be issued on a number of elements of the bill. Let me be clear about the general occupational requirement exception. That does not chan...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, welcome the tone of the comments made by members from across the chamber. It is very welcome indeed. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the bill ...
Shona Robison
SNP
That is an important point. We have always achieved rights for each other when we have stood together to strive for further rights and equality. The bill is ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of her statement. We know that trans people in Scotland and in all parts of the world are at heightened risk o...
Shona Robison
SNP
I agree that the bill is not about whether trans people should be able to live their lives as they wish. They have those protections explicitly under the Equ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
I appreciate that the cabinet secretary stated that the legislation and the policy of self-ID does not change the protections afforded by the Equality Act 20...
Shona Robison
SNP
I know that the issues that Ruth Maguire has raised about the potential impact of the changes on single-sex spaces and services have been a clear focus. I wa...
Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Women’s groups have felt sidelined during the consultation process, and they believe that the bill was a fait accompli before they had the opportunity to dis...
Shona Robison
SNP
The bill is not a fait accompli. It has just been introduced in Parliament and it will be for Parliament—Conservatives and everybody else across the chamber—...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I have spoken directly with young trans people and older trans people who have been through the process of obtaining a gender recognition certificate. They h...
Shona Robison
SNP
Yes—I agree with that. Fundamentally, this is about supporting people who are already living in their acquired gender. It is clear from our consultations tha...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I welcome the introduction of the bill, and I associate myself with the comments of my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy and with comments that members from across...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I hope that you could hear that clearly enough, cabinet secretary.
Shona Robison
SNP
I think I got the gist of it. Parliament sets the timetable for bills: the stage 1 debate, then stage 2 consideration and then stage 3. The role of the comm...