Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 15 December 2020
I do not think that Johann Lamont is interpreting the legislation correctly at all. It does not concern subjective opinions in relation to, for example, the new offences regarding transgender identity. It would not be enough for someone to say, “I think that Johann Lamont is transphobic and therefore she should be investigated and prosecuted.” A high threshold would exist, and it would have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, taking account of all the contextual factors, that she intended to stir up hatred against people because of their transgender identity. I am certain that it would not be possible to prove that.
However, even if it were to be proven that Johann Lamont’s behaviour had been intended to stir up hatred, the other legal threshold would also have to be met—that her behaviour was threatening or abusive. Again—I have no doubt that this will be covered in the debate—the test that would be applied by the courts is not a subjective one but an objective one. I therefore do not agree with Johann Lamont’s interpretation.
I understand that I am running out of time, so perhaps I could say more on the working group on misogynistic harassment in my closing remarks.
I know that members will wish to speak on many other aspects of the bill that I have not had time to cover—for example, I am sure that we will go on to debate the dwelling defence, the public element, the definition of “abusive” and the reasonableness defence. I will listen carefully to everything that members have to say.
In the meantime, I again thank the Justice Committee for its comprehensive and excellent report, which gives us a good basis for going on to stage 2. My plea is that, as we have done in advance of this debate, we should continue to work together to strengthen the law and to tackle hate crime in a way that will protect the rights of everyone to live their lives free from harm, while also protecting the important fundamental right to freedom of expression. I am certain that we can do so. I commend the general principles of the bill to the Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Bill.