Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 25 November 2020
25 Nov 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Legal Advice (Publication)
That is not the fundamental point; the fundamental point is the maintenance of legal professional privilege, which has existed in law for all time, and which, as a minister, Jackie Baillie was asserting. That is relevant, as set out by Shona Robison, who was the minister who presided over much of the handling of the arguments around minimum unit pricing. The Government relied on legal advice in relation to the successive legal challenges to that policy. In her contribution, Shona Robison raised a legitimate concern about whether that advice would have been as robust and as accepting of the risks that are inherent in judicial review if there had been a fear of the advice becoming public.
The Government’s legislation was successful at every stage of the legal challenge, but there were plenty of commentators at the time who said that the Government’s legal position was weak and vulnerable. However, in the privacy of the exchange of advice and information—which one week might have been strong, and another week might have been weak—fundamentally, we had the ability to formulate a position that was successfully defended. That is what is potentially jeopardised by the creation of a new precedent in that area of activity.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23445, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on legal advice. I encourage all members who wish to contribute to pr...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Three weeks ago, Parliament resolved that the Scottish Government should hand over to the Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complai...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
Earlier this month, when Parliament last debated this issue, I set out the reasons why Scottish ministers considered that the balance of public interest lay ...
Murdo Fraser
Con
The Deputy First Minister is aware that the committee has been asking for sight of that legal advice, not in the past three weeks but for many months before ...
John Swinney
SNP
I will make two points. The first is that, although the committee has been asking for the legal advice, the Government has been maintaining its position, whi...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
The Deputy First Minister’s recollection of the Lord Advocate’s evidence to our committee is correct. One of the things that the Lord Advocate would not disc...
John Swinney
SNP
I think that Mr Cole-Hamilton knows the answer to that, but I presume that he raises it so that I can confirm it. The ministerial code prevents me from disc...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
It is tempting to make the same speech that I made the last time we debated this issue, because in the past three weeks, absolutely nothing has changed—not o...
John Swinney
SNP
Would Jackie Baillie care to share with Parliament any of the detail of the correspondence that I shared with the committee about the obligations that I am u...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I would be happy to share that. It is available on the website. However, I say to the cabinet secretary that he has had not just the time that the committee ...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green)
Green
Here we go again. As members have already stated, the Parliament expressed its will in unequivocal terms and voted on 4 November. I want to reflect on the qu...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
We should not be having this debate. I say to Government members who will likely criticise the use of parliamentary time for a topic such as this in the midd...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am conscious that this is a debate, so I have given as much time as possible for interventions. However, we are pushed for time, so members have only four ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Three weeks have elapsed since the Scottish Parliament agreed to a motion calling on the Scottish Government to publish all the legal advice that it received...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I start by agreeing with Murdo Fraser when he sympathised with the complainers, which was entirely proper. Let us look at precedents in relation to the disc...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
Here we go again. For the second time in three weeks, we are having a debate that concentrates on the release of legal advice pertaining to the judicial revi...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
Yesterday, we saw the Parliament at its finest, working across parties to pass an important piece of legislation for people across the whole of Scotland. It ...
Murdo Fraser
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer, I am sure that you are aware that standing orders require members to address the terms of the topic of the debate. We...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I have been following the member’s contribution with close interest, Mr Fraser. He has been making a point. However, he has now made his point with his compa...
James Dornan
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer—although I have to say that pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories is very important to what the debate is all about. As my c...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
As members have said, here we are again. I had thought that the SNP would, after it lost the crucial vote in the chamber three weeks ago on a motion that had...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP)
SNP
I begin by reiterating what I said in the debate on 4 November. I made three points then on the issue of legal advice, and I wish to repeat them. First, as ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Now we know. We know from today’s speeches, from the briefings to the SNP group and from the reports to their meetings by John Swinney that the Scottish Gove...
John Swinney
SNP
I will reflect on a couple of the contributions, because they illustrate the arguments that I gave in my opening speech. Stewart Stevenson brought his deep ...
John Swinney
SNP
I will develop the point and happily give way to Jackie Baillie. I made the point earlier that ministers today have a duty to ministers in the future, which...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
The fundamental difference that John Swinney fails to mention is that we never faced, and lost, a vote in the Parliament and were never in a situation in whi...
John Swinney
SNP
That is not the fundamental point; the fundamental point is the maintenance of legal professional privilege, which has existed in law for all time, and which...
Andy Wightman
Green
Can we take it from the cabinet secretary’s observations that he has no intention of publishing any legal advice in relation to the judicial review?
John Swinney
SNP
I am simply airing to the Parliament the issues with which I have to wrestle. I am the minister who will have to decide on the question, and I am simply airi...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a member of the Faculty of Advocates. I will begin on a bit of a tangent, and I hope th...