Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 27 May 2020
27 May 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I am grateful for that. I am grateful to both members for their interventions, because the point is well made. However, I want to develop it slightly, because Stand Up For Siblings, Clan Childlaw and CELCIS went on to say that the financial memorandum does not set out the cost implications for local authorities of implementing the duty.
The minister will remember that, in committee, I questioned her on whether, without additional resources, it would in any event be possible to give effect to the duty in practice. Her view was that the practice should already be happening so the provision is cost neutral. Leaving aside the fact that I hope that the data to back that up will be forthcoming, I note that I pressed her on her use of the word “should”. I worry that, if that is not happening, there will logically be costs for compliance, which should be budgeted for in the financial memorandum, and that, if the resources are not there, it will offer a reason for non-compliance. The minister’s reply was brief. She said simply—
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Lewis Macdonald)
Lab
The next item of business is a stage 1 debate on motion S5M-21834, in the name of Ash Denham, on the Children (Scotland) Bill. 15:05
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham)
SNP
Presiding Officer, thank you for giving me the opportunity to address the Parliament on the general principles of the Children (Scotland) Bill. I am delighte...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Does the minister recognise that, in that consultation, children overwhelmingly supported the right of children to have meaningful relationships with grandpa...
Ash Denham
SNP
I am grateful to the member for raising that issue. He will recall that I met him and his constituents so that I could hear from them at first hand about the...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The minister mentions brothers and sisters. The Justice Committee’s recommendations on the bill include the ask that the word “practicable” be removed from s...
Ash Denham
SNP
The relationship between siblings is very important, and we really want the duties to be implemented in practice. We will continue to work with local authori...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I apologise—I am not on the Justice Committee, so I have not followed the bill all the way through. Will the minister explain how, if all children are treate...
Ash Denham
SNP
That is part of what the bill will do. It will attempt to give all children an opportunity to express their views in a way that is suitable to them. In doing...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Margaret Mitchell will now speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 15:22
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
As the convener of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the stage 1 debate on the Children (Scotland) Bill and to thank al...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I remind members that I am a practising solicitor holding certificates with the law societies of England and Wales, and Scotland. In opening for the Conserva...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member agree that section 16 could provide a safeguard for parents who are protecting their children from domestic abuse? That can be a very good re...
Liam Kerr
Con
I do. That is an important point, and I am grateful to Rona Mackay for making it. However, on balance, the evidence that we heard leads me to believe that se...
Neil Findlay
Lab
I encourage the minister to listen to that point. I do not want to speak for other parties but, given what Liam Kerr seems to be saying, it would appear that...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
The minister is not on her feet and speaking just now. If Mr Kerr would like to stand up and take an intervention from the minister, that will be acceptable....
Liam Kerr
Con
I am grateful, Presiding Officer. I will take an intervention from the minister.
Ash Denham
SNP
I reassure Neil Findlay that I am, of course, listening to everything that is being said in the debate and making careful notes on it. He will note that the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Minister, you are intervening on Mr Kerr. We can always rely on Mr Findlay to get us all confused. Laughter.
Ash Denham
SNP
My apologies. I will of course be happy to meet both members in order to discuss the issue further.
Liam Kerr
Con
I am grateful for that. I am grateful to both members for their interventions, because the point is well made. However, I want to develop it slightly, becaus...
Ash Denham
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr
Con
Do I have time, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Yes.
Liam Kerr
Con
Thank you. I will take the intervention.
Ash Denham
SNP
The independent care review report, which is entitled “Follow the Money”, provides reassurance that there is that money in the system. In this year’s local g...
Liam Kerr
Con
I am grateful to the minister, but that does not change the fact that there is nothing on the subject in the financial memorandum. I believe that my point is...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We do not have any more extra time. Perhaps you can contribute later, Mr MacGregor.
Liam Kerr
Con
I came to the bill from a standing start. I had not done anything in the family courts, except for some second-hand personal experience, since the very start...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the Justice Committee clerks for putting together the report under very difficult circumstances, particularly towards the end of the process, when th...