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Showing 60 of 2,095,827 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,357. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.18:01Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 11 June 2026, as soon as the text is available.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, is: For 71, Against 50, Abstentions 0.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament believes there is a need to restore publi...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
Joe Long (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to vote. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, is: For 53, Against 70, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAhmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bibby, Neil...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 53, Abstentions 0.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 55, Against 68, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We move to the vote on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar. Members should cast their votes now.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:53Meeting suspended.17:55On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business.I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Hepburn is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall.The first question is, that amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepbu...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:53
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-00301, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.Motion moved,That the Parliament agrees—(a) the following programme of business—Tuesday 16 June 20262....
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
17:52
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That concludes the debate on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics.
Jackie Baillie Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister misunderstands and is clearly not listening. The people of Scotland are interested in those wider questions, but that is not what I am suggesting the inquiry should do. I have been very clear on that point.Let me go back to what Robin McAlpine had to say about dem...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I find it interesting that, although Ms Baillie said that it is not for others to take an interest in the SNP’s internal affairs, she is now talking extensively about the appointment of a KC and the thin nature of our internal governance review. It seems that she is taking an ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The key and absolute qualification for any First Minister of Scotland is that“that individual must be able to command the trust of the Parliament and the public.”—Official Report, 28 November 2001; c 4118.Those are not my words but those of John Swinney and, on that point, we ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, I do not, so let us move on.The point that I was going to make was one that I made earlier: it is important that, as an institution, we focus on matters that are of primary interest and of paramount importance to the people of Scotland. Instead of raising issues like this,...
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I remember how sleazy, arrogant and entitled Labour became when it dominated Scottish politics. Does the minister see that at all in his party?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way to Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
: —that the SNP has won five elections in a row. It has earned the trust of the people for five elections in a row. It is just a matter of fact—there is no arrogance about it; it is just a reality.I think that it is important that we—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Please speak through the chair.
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It was the mindset that Murrell had.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It is not a mindset but a matter of fact—
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is your mindset.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
There are two things there. First, the public can be confident that the crime that has been perpetrated has been fully investigated and prosecuted and there is now a plea. I do not think that any of us is suggesting that there is a lack of confidence in that process—I certainl...
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is a very generous offer, but I will have to decline.The minister is talking about the SNP investigating itself. How does that improve the confidence of the public in the Government party in this country?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I do not think that Mr Rennie is one of those SNP members, but maybe he wants to apply to join—we might let him come on board.I will give way one more time, to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That brings me to a point that I was going to make later, because it picks up on a point that Willie Rennie made—I see that Mr Rennie is now paying attention to me. He made the point that my party does not want to do anything in response to some of the issues that have arisen ...
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister does not want to accept questions coming from other parts of the chamber. Does he accept that questions are also coming from people who served his party, both in the NEC and in Parliaments? Those people are saying that blocks and obstructions were put in the way o...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way one more time.
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That was a wonderful pre-prepared line delivered tremendously well, Ms Lindsay. We look forward to much more of that.The past few weeks have been uncomfortable, difficult and very distressing for many of us—I will not pretend otherwise. No one would believe me if I did. Howeve...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The only thing that I would say in response to that is that the SNP lecturing Reform on sleaze is like Lord Mandelson selling ethics lessons. No one is buying it.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I say to Amanda Lindsay that I might take more seriously the notion that my party operated like a syndicate if her party was not one that had been formed as a private limited company that is owned by one individual. Let us just remember where we are all starting from. Interrup...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Yet, when it comes to holding one of its own to account for embezzling party funds, the urgency mysteriously disappears.Meanwhile, Scottish Labour, which called this debate, might want to reflect on its party’s sleazy history. After all, its hero, Lord Mandelson, was twice for...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The member must be heard.
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Instead of full transparency, we have had silence, deflection and obstruction. The First Minister likes to lecture others about integrity, yet he still refuses to put country before party. If he truly believes in restoring public trust, he must stop hiding behind lawyers and f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, no, minister. The member does not have to take interventions.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Ah, come on!
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Forgive me, but I wish to make progress.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Amanda Lindsay (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I support this debate and back calls for a full parliamentary inquiry into the shocking embezzlement of party funds by Peter Murrell.The Scottish people deserve the truth. For years, the SNP has presented itself as a slick, professional political machine. In reality, it has op...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I think that Anas Sarwar would be horrified if a former or a current leader of a political party told its members how they should vote on a committee decision. Interruption. That is for committees to decide, and I am not going to instruct any—Interruption. Look at him laughing...
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Mr Harvie says that committees in this Parliament could investigate certain prosecutions. To clarify, if a motion came to the justice committee, would his party support such an investigation by the justice committee?
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I beg your pardon, Presiding Officer. I was just discovering how much some speeches improve when I remove my hearing aids.Sadly, today, we have very much seen the debate that I expected. There has been some opportunistic partisanship dressed up as principled concern, and there...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 December 2019

19 Dec 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Referendums (Scotland) Bill

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in favour of the bill, which I do confident in the knowledge that pretty much no serious evidence was submitted during the process that disagreed with the principle of having framework legislation on referendums. Rather, there was broad agreement that it is a good idea.

There was, however, also broad agreement that the bill as introduced was not adequate; it has been substantially changed since then. Adam Tomkins said that the bill is “less bad” than it was when it was introduced, which might be the closest that we get to high praise from him. Nonetheless, it is true that it is a less bad bill. There have been significant improvements, which are adequate for me to be able to support the bill.

Referendums can be done well or they can be done badly. That is true in relation to the practice, the process, the conduct, and the legislation under which they operate. It is also true in relation to the political judgments and the nature of political campaigning around referendums. The bill will improve the former: the practice, the process, the conduct and the legislation under which referendums will operate in the future.

However, improving the politics of how and why we use referendums—of their purpose and meaning in our democracy—is something that we all, as political actors, need to take responsibility for. I do not mean just we, in the chamber; I mean we, in our society and our democracy.

There can be very little doubt that the argument that Alex Rowley referred to, about the sovereignty of Parliament, holds great importance for many people at UK political level. However, it does not always sit easily with the principle of the sovereignty of the people that we speak of in Scottish constitutional history. That conflict is one of the things that has played out in chaotic and damaging ways at UK level in recent years. In fact, the people in the UK Government who are today proudly and patriotically asserting the sovereignty of Parliament are the very same people who have been demanding that a wafer-thin majority in an advisory referendum that was conducted with—at best—dubious tactics represents the unshakeable and unchallengeable will of the people, and that it has to be implemented, even to the point of illegally proroguing the UK Parliament. Those who assert one principle but live by another do not necessarily speak from the high ground in relation to those issues.

I have argued since—I think—before the bill was introduced that we should look to Ireland if we want to learn how to improve the politics of how we do referendums and why we use them. In what could have been deeply divisive and polarising issues, Ireland did not frame referendums simply by giving the job either to politicians or to an electoral commission. Rather, it actively brought in deliberative processes, with citizen-led discussion about what questions should be put to referendum and how to frame them. In that way, what might otherwise have been divisive and polarising referendums were much more unifying experiences.

I do not pretend that we can solve every aspect of the challenges that we will face as we approach the next independence referendum; it is coming and it is necessary. We can improve the legislation today, but we cannot with a single bill improve the politics of how we do referendums. We will all need to take responsibility for that, and learn lessons from what, in the past, we have done well and what we have done badly.

15:55  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20237, in the name of Michael Russell, on the Referendums (Scotland) Bill at stage 3.
The Cabinet Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations (Michael Russell) SNP
I thank all those who have been involved in shaping and developing the bill over the past few months. I am very grateful to the bill team, which has done a t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Excuse me, cabinet secretary. I say to all members that Parliament has resumed, so no private conversations should be going on and no backs should be turned ...
Michael Russell SNP
It is perfectly possible to shape and develop a bill in a way that makes it better. That has happened in the case of this bill, and I am grateful to each mem...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I believe that the cabinet secretary has said that there are no plans to have any referendum other than one on Scotland’s constitutional future. I accept the...
Michael Russell SNP
I will address that question in two ways. First, the bill does not create a Scottish independence referendum—no ifs, no buts. It puts in place a framework, w...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will the cabinet secretary make it clear that the only reason he foresees using the legislation is for an independence referendum?
Michael Russell SNP
I have never said that. In fact, I gave evidence to the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, which Mr Simpson convenes, on other areas in which I thoug...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
We all know the reality, Presiding Officer. This was not intended, and never was intended, by the Scottish National Party to be a framework bill for all refe...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Does Adam Tomkins not agree that people can change their mind, as Jackson Carlaw did on his position regarding Brexit?
Adam Tomkins Con
I take the First Minister at her word. I would have thought that, as a very loyal servant of the First Minister, the member would do the same. The First Mini...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Adam Tomkins Con
I will happily give way to Mr Harvie in one minute. If we are really to have a legislative framework for referendums, we surely need to have some grasp of w...
Patrick Harvie Green
Those are important questions, but would it not be regrettable if we were to pass framework legislation that took a restrictive view? For example, the bill a...
Adam Tomkins Con
That is right. There is a degree of flexibility about that. However, it does not address the critical question, which, as Michael Russell said in his opening...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Adam Tomkins Con
—which was delivered by Her Majesty from the throne in the House of Lords this afternoon, made it perfectly clear that this people’s Government will not allo...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
In opening the debate for Scottish Labour at stage 1, I said that “If we, as a country, were to want to move to a more direct democracy in which referendums...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in favour of the bill, which I do confident in the knowledge that pretty much no serious evidence was submitted...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
MSPs from all across the chamber should be here to speak in support of a non-controversial technical bill to manage the detail of referendums that might take...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Mike Rumbles LD
I am afraid that I have only four minutes. Patrick Harvie complained earlier about my use of the phrase “mask of nationalism”, but it is an apt phrase. Mr H...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles LD
Because I have more time, I will give way.
Patrick Harvie Green
I say, with the best will in the world, that I would not call Mike Rumbles a British nationalist, and he would not thank me if I did. Would he please pay the...
Mike Rumbles LD
No, because that is exactly what the Green Party is—a nationalist party. It is amazing that it pretends that it is not a nationalist party. The Scottish Gov...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
I want to do two things in the time that we have available for today’s important debate. Before I do that, I note that I am disappointed in the boorish and r...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
We could have been spending the last moments of this year in Parliament debating something that is important to the majority of people in Scotland. We could ...
Bruce Crawford SNP
Can Alexander Burnett give us an example of where the committee failed in the parliamentary scrutiny process or, indeed, where extra time should have been bu...
Alexander Burnett Con
I think that we would all have wanted more time for the Electoral Commission to give its agreement to the bill. That is one example, and it is very sad that ...