Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 05 February 2020
05 Feb 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tax and Public Spending
No. Let me make some progress.
Our proposals are costed at £777 million. I was therefore rather surprised to see that the Government’s amendment to our motion claims that our proposals would cost more than double that, at £1.5 billion. That is fake news from the people who brought us the 2014 independence white paper, promised an oil price of $110 a barrel and said that we could set up a whole new country for the sum of £200 million. We cannot trust a word that they say. Financial illiteracy seems to be a qualification for being in the Scottish Government.
Talking of financial illiteracy, I give way to the Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-20716, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on there being no case for tax increases or further cuts to public sp...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Tomorrow, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work will set out his budget for the coming financial year. I think that we are all looking for...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work (Derek Mackay)
SNP
That is not true.
Murdo Fraser
Con
If the finance secretary wants to intervene and explain to me why that is not true, I will give way.
Derek Mackay
SNP
Does Murdo Fraser not understand—or, indeed, know—that the tax forecasts are made by the Scottish Fiscal Commission and not by the Scottish Government?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I regret to tell the finance secretary that he is wrong, because the overestimate that I referred to was an estimate that was made by the Scottish Government...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Does Murdo Fraser accept that it was not entirely the Government that was responsible for that estimate, and that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs did not k...
Murdo Fraser
Con
John Mason makes a reasonable point in relation to the original forecast of tax revenues, but my point is that we now have much better information for the fo...
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes)
SNP
Will Murdo Fraser give way?
Murdo Fraser
Con
No. Let me make some progress. Our proposals are costed at £777 million. I was therefore rather surprised to see that the Government’s amendment to our moti...
Kate Forbes
SNP
Would Murdo Fraser be willing to publish his costings and associated lines?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I would be absolutely delighted to do that. I will pass them across the chamber to the finance minister right now. The two areas that we view as priorities ...
Murdo Fraser
Con
Mr Rennie caught my eye first, so I will give way to him.
Willie Rennie
LD
I hear what Murdo Fraser is saying, which is why I am confused that his motion and budget proposals implicitly support the tax rise by refusing to reverse it...
Murdo Fraser
Con
I am grateful for Willie Rennie’s intervention, because I was just going to make precisely that point. He has given me a cue to do that. I would dearly love...
Patrick Harvie
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I need to make some progress. My colleagues will set out in more detail later in the debate our priorities for public services spending, but when it comes t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call Kate Forbes to speak to and move amendment S5M-20716.4. 15:33
The Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy (Kate Forbes)
SNP
Why have a budget debate once when you can have one three, four or five times? I am delighted to be here again to talk about the budget, which will be publis...
Murdo Fraser
Con
On that point, would the minister accept the point that was made in evidence to the Finance and Constitution Committee last week by the Fraser of Allander in...
Kate Forbes
SNP
It is worth reflecting on two points. The first is that, at the beginning of the process of the devolution of tax-raising powers, there will inevitably be qu...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Can the minister confirm that we will not see any more of the cuts that we have seen to drug and alcohol budgets from this SNP Government?
Kate Forbes
SNP
I look forward to the member participating in tomorrow’s budget debate. I am, of course, not going to confirm anything that will be in the budget tomorrow, b...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
Austerity has caused untold harm to our communities. Surely, none of us came into politics to see a world in which families are dependent on food banks, maln...
Patrick Harvie
Green
I am glad that the member agrees that a climate emergency budget is necessary and that public investment must be forthcoming. Is the Labour Party’s position ...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
That question leads me nicely on to an intervention that we have proposed, which is for free bus travel for the under-25s. That not only would increase the u...
John Mason
SNP
Will the member give way?
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I am quite short of time and I wish to make a number of points. That approach has had an impact on lifeline services and, in turn, on the most vulnerable pe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You must conclude and move your amendment, please.
Rhoda Grant
Lab
I will move to my conclusion, Presiding Officer. Our budget requests are realistic—