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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.

Speaker unknown Chamber

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Your vote has been recorded.

David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Your vote will be recorded.

Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.The vote is closed.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.

Speaker unknown Chamber

ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Okay, thank you.

Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber

My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

The question on the motion will be put at decision time.

Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

Go on—why not?

The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

Parliamentary Bureau Motion

The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...

Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...

David Barratt SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?

The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.

David Barratt SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.

David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...

Bob Doris SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...

Ivan McKee SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...

The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

We move to the open debate.15:58

Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...

David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47

Michael Marra Lab Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...

Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber

Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)

I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...

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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 December 2019

18 Dec 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament

Item of business

ScotRail Franchise

Matheson, Michael SNP Falkirk West Watch on SPTV

I thank the member for his comments. I said to Jamie Greene that, in considering the rebasing proposal that ScotRail put to us, we carried out a very detailed and thorough analysis of its submission. However, I can confirm to Mr Smyth that his personal views on the issue did not factor into that assessment, which was founded purely on the rebasing process.

Colin Smyth’s second point was on the public sector bid. He does not seem to acknowledge or recognise that our hands are tied at the moment, because our only option is to have a franchise bid for rail services in Scotland. We have the scope for a public sector body to bid for a franchise agreement against other parties who are bidding for any franchise that is let by the Scottish Government.

Colin Smyth might be happy to continue with franchising; I am not. As I have previously stated in this chamber, I want to get rid of franchising, so that we can have a public sector service in Scotland that reflects the needs of the people of Scotland. I assure the member that we will do everything that we can to get the powers here in Scotland to determine the future shape of Scotland’s railway. I hope that we will get the support of the Labour Party in demanding from the new Conservative Government that all powers over rail should be devolved to this Parliament, so that we can use them in a way that reflects the needs of the Scottish rail network.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP

The next item of business is a rail update statement by Michael Matheson. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, so there sho...

The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson) SNP

I would like to take the opportunity to update Parliament on the ScotRail franchise contract. The benefits that our railways bring are well rehearsed: they ...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement, and I intend to allow around 20 minutes for that. There are already a lo...

Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con

I start by paying tribute to the thousands of people who work on Scotland’s railway, many of whom will be watching the statement, given that they had no form...

Michael Matheson SNP

Jamie Greene’s initial comment was that the hundreds of thousands of staff who work for ScotRail were given no advance notice of this announcement. My respon...

Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab

I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of his statement. Since the start of this franchise, Abellio has failed to deliver for Scotland’s hard-presse...

Michael Matheson SNP

I thank the member for his comments. I said to Jamie Greene that, in considering the rebasing proposal that ScotRail put to us, we carried out a very detaile...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

We move to open questions, and I have a lot of requests.

John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green

I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of his statement. I warmly welcome the end of the franchise and mourn the fact that we cannot go straight to na...

Michael Matheson SNP

On the member’s latter point, the answer is yes. I am aware of the concerns that have been raised, particularly in relation to the proposed changes that the ...

Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD

This is good news indeed. I very much welcome the decision to end Abellio ScotRail’s contract, which the Liberal Democrats have been calling for, and the cab...

Michael Matheson SNP

I am grateful for Mike Rumbles’s comments on the matter. He touched on an important issue. I do not want to start speculating about any future contracts, on ...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

I know that the cabinet secretary’s answers are fulsome and probably appreciated, but they are rather long, which means that some questions will need to be c...

Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP

I welcome the cabinet secretary’s statement. He will be aware of my continuing interest in supporting the improvement of rail services from Kilmarnock, and f...

Michael Matheson SNP

I am aware of Willie Coffey’s interest, given that both Wabtec Rail and Brodie Engineering have bases in his constituency, which I had the pleasure of visiti...

Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

Performance concerns have many causes: 40 per cent of cancellations are caused by problems with tracks or signalling, 10 per cent are caused by non-ScotRail ...

Michael Matheson SNP

That is a bit rich from the Conservative Party. Week in and week out, Conservative members come into the chamber to slag off ScotRail and to demand better se...

Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP

Can the cabinet secretary provide any further detail on whether his decision will have implications for the current Abellio contract between now and 2022?

Michael Matheson SNP

The existing franchise agreement and the contract’s content continue to be in place. Through the various levers in the contract, we can continue to hold Abel...

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab

I thank the cabinet secretary for the early Christmas present to the hard-pressed commuters in my area, and I welcome his recognition of Scottish Labour’s ca...

Michael Matheson SNP

I am pleased to give Jackie Baillie’s constituents an early Christmas present, if that is how she views the matter. It is a decision that was made purely on ...

Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP

The cabinet secretary mentioned the UK rail review. When it is eventually published, how will he take it into consideration for the future of rail services?

Michael Matheson SNP

We had hoped to have the outcome of the UK rail review in the autumn of this year, when it was anticipated—possibly in October. However, it was delayed by th...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

If Rachael Hamilton is quick, I will manage to get John Mason in.

Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con

In October of this year, Dominic Booth, Abellio UK’s managing director, said: “Scotland’s railway needs stability, not the upheaval a change in the franchis...

Michael Matheson SNP

I hope that Rachael Hamilton will welcome the significant improvement that there has been on Borders rail services, including the provision of increased capa...

John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP

In recent years, there have been huge improvements in the rail service; there certainly have been between Glasgow and Edinburgh. We now have five electrified...

Michael Matheson SNP

Yes. All the commitments that were set out as part of our plan for investment in the franchise and our infrastructure investments will continue as part of th...

The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP

I can squeeze in a quick question from Claire Baker.

Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab

I very much welcome today’s announcement, but ScotRail’s contract with Abellio will still last until 2022, and as we enter the severe winter period my consti...