Hansard

Adam Tomkins has made an interesting point, which I take in the spirit in which it was made. It is essential that we complete the intergovernmental review. It is possible that changes that come about as a result of the intergovernmental review will create a landscape of which that suggestion will be a part. However, as the UK Government has not yet moved an inch on the intergovernmental review, I think it unlikely that the UK Government, let alone anyone else, would accede to such a thing. I will come back to the point.

The quarterly reports in relation to section 12 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 have so far indicated that there is no need for legislation to impose frameworks. That is welcome; it is also essential, because we have made it clear at all times that if there is any attempt to use section 12 powers, we will cease to co-operate on frameworks. We are determined to ensure that new legislation is introduced in the Scottish Parliament to ensure that our law continues to be aligned with EU law, whatever the frameworks are, in order to maintain current standards and protections in key areas. That is a crucial issue, to which I will come back.

Mr Tomkins referred to the machinery of the intergovernmental relationship, which is a key point. I want to make five contextual points about frameworks before I go into more detail.

First, the current intergovernmental relationship is not fit for purpose. Everybody who has studied and understands the matter, whether we are talking about the work of the House of Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, the interparliamentary forum on Brexit, or academic studies, has said that the current situation does not work. A different situation is needed, which is why the intergovernmental review was accepted by all parts of the JMC structure 18 months ago.

Since then, the Welsh have published detailed proposals. We have proposals to make, and we will make them. The UK Government has, however, brought nothing to the table. There was an agreement on principles at the end of June, as a result of the meeting of the JMC in Manchester, which was the last meeting that David Lidington chaired, but those principles had been agreed a long time ago. We need some progress.

I do not believe that we can establish a secure basis for frameworks unless the intergovernmental review has been completed and there is agreement on what the structure should be. Bruce Crawford made that point. That also applies to any second stage of EU negotiations: it is impossible to envisage a second stage of EU negotiations in which there have not been substantial changes in the relationships between the nations of these islands. As I have said in the past—I remember Carwyn Jones saying it, and Mark Drakeford has indicated the same thing—Brexit has been too heavy for devolution to bear.

My second contextual point is about the UK internal market—a phrase that we will hear in the debate. We welcome the committee’s unanimous view that the creation of a UK internal market cannot be a pretext for adjusting devolution without the consent of the Scottish Parliament. It is important to recognise that there is no definition of “UK internal market”, and that the UK Government has not provided, and cannot provide, such a definition.

Thirdly, the shape of frameworks depends on a range of factors—not least of which is future UK trade deals and the future relationship with the EU. We have repeatedly made the case for a guaranteed role for the Scottish Government and Parliament in future trade deals.

Fourthly, it is essential that any frameworks be temporary, that they preserve decision making for the Scottish ministers and that they respect devolution.

My final contextual point is about the principles that are established and the expectation of substantial EU alignment—the level playing field. If there is no level playing field, the frameworks will be at severe risk, because it has been anticipated and planned for that there should continue to be a level playing field. I will write to the UK Government about that very shortly. I know that others share my concerns on that.

I turn to the question of where we are going. The process of agreeing frameworks must be transparent and inclusive, and the Scottish Parliament must have the opportunity to consider and agree all frameworks. Many frameworks will have a mixture of legislation—primary and/or secondary—and non-statutory agreements, so the scrutiny procedures need to reflect that. Since the committee reported in March, we have consulted extensively, and Scottish Government officials have worked constructively with parliamentary clerks to consider how scrutiny should take place. We are now in discussion with other Administrations and legislators. To answer Mr Crawford’s question about timescale, we aim to have an agreed process in place before the end of the year, as the first frameworks are likely to come forward for scrutiny at that time.

In the meantime, we have greater understanding of the scope of frameworks. We are considering how they will be placed in the public domain and what discussion we should have about them. We accept that stakeholders should have a central role in the design and implementation of the final stage of the frameworks, and that they should be able to test and refine them. I will continue to work with Scottish Parliament committees to facilitate meaningful engagement on the issue. That will, of course, include the Finance and Constitution Committee, which has been constructive. Last year, the committee held an excellent event at the Royal Society of Edinburgh, and it is important that such an event happens again.

On the next steps, we will continue to develop the frameworks, but the process is new and unprecedented and there are competing priorities. There is huge uncertainty surrounding Brexit—today of all days, we know that. I say frankly that, because of the pressures of Brexit, everything in Whitehall is in paralysis. We will continue to try to develop the frameworks because they must be available, should they be needed. I would prefer that they were not needed and that Brexit did not happen, but if they are needed, they will be there.

We must continue to address the issues of review, scrutiny and management. I note Mr Crawford’s important remarks about publication, which I will bear in mind.

Today, members have an opportunity to influence the process by giving their views. I will welcome comments and contributions from across the chamber. We will take note of them and feed them into the dialogue that we are having with the committees.

I also welcome the interest from across Scotland. In a welcome innovation, we are hearing today the voices of others on what the frameworks should be. For example, the Royal Society of Edinburgh and the Law Society of Scotland have given their opinions. I do not agree with everything that they have said, but I welcome their input.

We have an opportunity to talk about an issue that could be of importance. I stress my hope that, in the end, it will not be important—but it could be. This is the one area of Brexit negotiations in which we have been able to move forward constructively. That is because we have worked on the basis that there will be no imposition. As yet, the UK Government has not pulled rank, because it knows that it needs the frameworks to be put in place by negotiation. We have made some progress and can probably make more, provided that that spirit continues.