Committee
Audit Committee, 30 Apr 2008
30 Apr 2008 · S3 · Audit Committee
Item of business
“Financial overview of Scotland's colleges 2006/07”
Do they relate to 2006-07 or 2007-08?
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
The second item on the agenda is the Auditor General for Scotland's report "Financial overview of Scotland's colleges 2006/07". The issue has significance th...
Mr Robert Black (Auditor General for Scotland):
Thank you, convener. I will be assisted in this briefing by Barbara Hurst, who will be master—I am not sure if one says mistress these days; I will say maste...
Barbara Hurst (Audit Scotland):
Set against that relatively positive picture of college finances, four colleges—Edinburgh's Telford College, Elmwood College, James Watt College and North Gl...
The Convener:
Lab
I want to ask about the issue of governance, which you touched on, and about leadership. From my local experience, I am struck by how, in the wider Renfrewsh...
Mr Black:
I will attempt to reply to the convener's questions and thoughts on those extremely important general issues before inviting Barbara Hurst to respond.I absol...
Jim Hume (South of Scotland) (LD):
LD
Overall, the position is improving, which page 4 of the report says has been achieved "by increases in funding". However, in paragraph 95 on page 20 concern ...
Barbara Hurst:
It is still too soon to say. In our report, we say that there is a risk of colleges being affected, but we do not know what will happen. As a result of the r...
George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab):
Lab
This is an excellent report that shows the value of the whole process. The colleges' financial performance has improved under pressure from the committee and...
Mr Black:
I acknowledge Lord Foulkes's concerns about the performance of the governance function. It is not really possible for us to give members a strong evidence ba...
The Convener:
Lab
George Foulkes and I have raised issues of governance with you. I described boards as a fig-leaf for many principals. They appoint their board, so they can a...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I want to ask about the points that are mentioned in paragraphs 23 to 27 of the report. I am rather concerned to see from the report—if I am reading it corre...
Mr Black:
The approach is not terribly satisfactory. Our difficulty is that the accounting standards allow different treatments, although we have encouraged the sector...
Barbara Hurst:
Mark MacPherson could give us an update and explain in a bit more detail.
Mark MacPherson (Audit Scotland):
Members will appreciate that accounting treatment is quite a technical issue. We appoint auditors to provide an independent opinion, so it is perfectly reaso...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
When is the situation likely to be resolved?
Mark MacPherson:
We cannot say with certainty when it will be resolved. There are still issues to be discussed and opinions to be resolved by different people. However, we ca...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
Yes. Thank you.
The Convener:
Lab
What would be required to ensure consistency? You mentioned that a degree of flexibility is open to people, but it seems rather absurd that different people ...
Mr Black:
We have suggested to the funding council that it would be helpful if it introduced a clear sector-wide policy to which the auditors could respond, but that i...
Stuart McMillan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Barbara Hurst mentioned two reports—on James Watt College and Kilmarnock College—that have been laid before the Parliament. What are they about? Are they sec...
Barbara Hurst:
They are. They have been laid with the accounts of the two colleges and highlight for the committee issues that arose from the accounts. It is unfortunate th...
Stuart McMillan:
SNP
Do they relate to 2006-07 or 2007-08?
Barbara Hurst:
They relate to the 2006-07 accounts. We mentioned them in the report. They will come to the committee.
Stuart McMillan:
SNP
I was not sure whether they were in addition to what is mentioned in the report.
Barbara Hurst:
No. There is a more formal process to ensure that we bring matters to your attention.
Stuart McMillan:
SNP
I agree with what the convener said about James Watt College. Around a year and a half ago, I spoke at a rally in Greenock in support of the lecturers, staff...
Mark MacPherson:
I do not think that we can add anything to what is described in the report; the position has not changed. It is up to the college to move on and work accordi...
Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Overall, the report is very good. The deficit has moved to a surplus, which is excellent.I have a couple of questions, one of which follows on from the quest...
Mr Black:
One benefit of amalgamation is that the new body will have the critical mass to ensure that it has strong finance and leadership skills and stronger boards. ...
Mark MacPherson:
Our understanding is that the option is a shared campus and not an amalgamation of the colleges. What happens when the colleges share a campus is a matter fo...