Committee
Health and Sport Committee 07 May 2019
07 May 2019 · S5 · Health and Sport Committee
Item of business
Human Tissue (Authorisation) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Thank you, convener, and good morning to the committee and the minister. I start by saying that this is a very helpful bill, which I think has all-party support. The amendments that I will put forward this morning seek to strengthen the bill and make it work better. The key amendment that I am putting forward is amendment 4, which relates to the issue of informed consent. I hope that a positive of the bill will be that it will kick-start a debate in Scotland on organ donation, so that families and individuals will be able to have better conversations, meaning that, when someone is dead, the family is better informed. The evidence from Wales has been positive. Before the bill that became the Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013 was introduced, public awareness in Wales was fairly low. Since then, it has greatly increased, which is very positive. I am aware that the Scottish Government has committed to putting in a lot of resource when this bill becomes an act, so that there will be advertising and suchlike, including on the television. However, the question is how we keep the conversation going over the next five to 10 years. There is a danger that there will be a high take-up initially, when people understand that it is going on, but that it becomes less well known as other issues come on to our agenda and things move on. If we are to have informed consent, it has to be genuinely informed. People who are 16 or older now will be part of the awareness campaign. However, people who are behind that group in years may not be aware of what is going on. Amendment 4 would simply commit the Scottish Government to ensuring that there is some kind of communication with people in Scotland every two years. I do not suggest that it has to be an individual letter to each person. It could work well if the communication went out with other communication, such as council tax letters or other forms, on a two-yearly basis, so that people would be aware. The advantage of that would be that it would allow the debate to continue over the next four, five or 10 years. It would also mean that those who are turning 16 would be aware of it. It will be a number of years before those who are eight, 10 or 11 years old at the moment reach that time—will they be informed about the decisions that they are being asked to make? I would be interested to know the views of the Scottish Government and the committee on the matter. A key part of the bill relates to informed consent, and we need to ensure that there is informed consent not only now but in the future. As the convener said, amendments 7 and 8 are direct alternatives, which would give either a two-year or a three-year option. The amendments relate to people who come not from the United Kingdom but from Europe or other parts of the world. At the moment, there is a period of one year before a person from a different jurisdiction enters the system. Again, my concern relates to informed consent. If someone pitches up from Australia, will the issue come on to their radar within the first 12 months of their being in Scotland? I am not convinced that it will. I accept that the Welsh have gone for a 12-month period, and I think that the legislation for England includes the same period, but we do not need to follow suit. We need to be comfortable in ourselves that there is deemed authorisation that comes from individuals giving informed consent. I suggest that a slightly longer period than one year is required for an individual to know what is going on and to be able to have the appropriate conversations with his or her relatives in other parts of the world. I move amendment 4.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Item 3 is stage 2 consideration of the Human Tissue (Authorisation) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome the Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzP...
The Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing (Joe FitzPatrick)
SNP
Good morning.
The Convener
Lab
Good morning. The minister is accompanied by Sharon Grant of the Scottish Government bill team; Jackie Pantony and Claire Montgomery from the Scottish Gover...
The Convener
Lab
The first group of amendments to the bill covers information and awareness. Amendment 4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 56, 57, 7,...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Thank you, convener, and good morning to the committee and the minister. I start by saying that this is a very helpful bill, which I think has all-party supp...
The Convener
Lab
I have lodged two amendments in the group, following discussions, particularly with the Law Society of Scotland, on the most appropriate format for addressin...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the minister for meeting me to discuss the generalities of the amendments. Like Jeremy Balfour, the Labour Party and I are very supportive of the bil...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I welcome Jeremy Balfour to the committee and thank him for moving amendment 4. Although I support the intent of amendment 4, I agree with David Stewart that...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning, everyone. I thank Jeremy Balfour for lodging his amendments. As I am a former liver transplant nurse who has also taken part in kidney and pan...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Good morning. I welcome my colleague Jeremy Balfour. I suppose that my question is more for the minister, because it relates to the guidance that will be a...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Jeremy Balfour for his amendment, but I agree with David Stewart and Alex Cole-Hamilton about the convener’s amendment. Once a year is better than on...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
Agreement to amendment 56 would mean that, as part of their duties in respect of transplantation and donation, the Scottish ministers should have a campaign ...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you, minister. I ask Jeremy Balfour to wind up and to press or seek to withdraw his amendment 4.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I thank members for the helpful debate that we have had. The comments by the minister were particularly helpful. I offer a slight caveat to the minister’s vi...
The Convener
Lab
We will come back to amendments 7 and 8 in due course. Amendment 4, by agreement, withdrawn. Amendment 56 moved—Lewis Macdonald—and agreed to. Section 2,...
The Convener
Lab
The next group is on excepted body parts. Amendment 5, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendment 6, amendments 9 to 17 and amendments 19 to 23...
Jeremy Balfour
Con
Amendment 5 would ensure that tissue is not used to create reproductive cells in research. It highlights the fact that while everyone believes that the bill ...
Emma Harper
SNP
I am interested in this, because from discussions that we have had, it seems that the issue is transplantation of not just solid organs but tissue. It is qui...
The Convener
Lab
As no one else wishes to contribute, I invite the minister to respond to this group of amendments.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
The amendments would remove a protection from the bill. The bill as introduced includes an exemption to ensure that deemed authorisation does not apply to ex...
The Convener
Lab
I ask Jeremy Balfour to wind up and say whether he wishes to press or to seek to withdraw amendment 5.
Jeremy Balfour
Con
I have nothing to add, convener. I seek to withdraw amendment 5. Amendment 5, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Convener
Lab
The next group relates to the establishment and maintenance of the register. Amendment 24, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 25 to 33.
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I have lodged amendments 24 to 33 following further consideration of how the provisions of section 3 on disclosure of information by the register organisatio...
The Convener
Lab
The question is, that amendment 57 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
Lab
There will be a division. For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab) St...
The Convener
Lab
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 57 agreed to. Section 3, as amended, agreed to. Section 4 agreed to. Section ...
The Convener
Lab
The next group is on how authorisation, declaration or withdrawal is to be made. Amendment 34, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 36, 40...
Joe FitzPatrick
SNP
I will speak to all the amendments in the group. They seek to enable a person to verbally withdraw a decision that they have given to the register organisati...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you. I invite other members to comment.