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Showing 60 of 2,095,827 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,357. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.18:01Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 11 June 2026, as soon as the text is available.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, is: For 71, Against 50, Abstentions 0.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament believes there is a need to restore publi...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
Joe Long (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to vote. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, is: For 53, Against 70, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAhmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bibby, Neil...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 53, Abstentions 0.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 55, Against 68, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We move to the vote on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar. Members should cast their votes now.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:53Meeting suspended.17:55On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business.I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Hepburn is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall.The first question is, that amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepbu...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:53
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-00301, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.Motion moved,That the Parliament agrees—(a) the following programme of business—Tuesday 16 June 20262....
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
17:52
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That concludes the debate on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics.
Jackie Baillie Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister misunderstands and is clearly not listening. The people of Scotland are interested in those wider questions, but that is not what I am suggesting the inquiry should do. I have been very clear on that point.Let me go back to what Robin McAlpine had to say about dem...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I find it interesting that, although Ms Baillie said that it is not for others to take an interest in the SNP’s internal affairs, she is now talking extensively about the appointment of a KC and the thin nature of our internal governance review. It seems that she is taking an ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The key and absolute qualification for any First Minister of Scotland is that“that individual must be able to command the trust of the Parliament and the public.”—Official Report, 28 November 2001; c 4118.Those are not my words but those of John Swinney and, on that point, we ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, I do not, so let us move on.The point that I was going to make was one that I made earlier: it is important that, as an institution, we focus on matters that are of primary interest and of paramount importance to the people of Scotland. Instead of raising issues like this,...
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I remember how sleazy, arrogant and entitled Labour became when it dominated Scottish politics. Does the minister see that at all in his party?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way to Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
: —that the SNP has won five elections in a row. It has earned the trust of the people for five elections in a row. It is just a matter of fact—there is no arrogance about it; it is just a reality.I think that it is important that we—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Please speak through the chair.
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It was the mindset that Murrell had.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It is not a mindset but a matter of fact—
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is your mindset.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
There are two things there. First, the public can be confident that the crime that has been perpetrated has been fully investigated and prosecuted and there is now a plea. I do not think that any of us is suggesting that there is a lack of confidence in that process—I certainl...
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is a very generous offer, but I will have to decline.The minister is talking about the SNP investigating itself. How does that improve the confidence of the public in the Government party in this country?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I do not think that Mr Rennie is one of those SNP members, but maybe he wants to apply to join—we might let him come on board.I will give way one more time, to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That brings me to a point that I was going to make later, because it picks up on a point that Willie Rennie made—I see that Mr Rennie is now paying attention to me. He made the point that my party does not want to do anything in response to some of the issues that have arisen ...
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister does not want to accept questions coming from other parts of the chamber. Does he accept that questions are also coming from people who served his party, both in the NEC and in Parliaments? Those people are saying that blocks and obstructions were put in the way o...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way one more time.
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That was a wonderful pre-prepared line delivered tremendously well, Ms Lindsay. We look forward to much more of that.The past few weeks have been uncomfortable, difficult and very distressing for many of us—I will not pretend otherwise. No one would believe me if I did. Howeve...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The only thing that I would say in response to that is that the SNP lecturing Reform on sleaze is like Lord Mandelson selling ethics lessons. No one is buying it.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I say to Amanda Lindsay that I might take more seriously the notion that my party operated like a syndicate if her party was not one that had been formed as a private limited company that is owned by one individual. Let us just remember where we are all starting from. Interrup...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Yet, when it comes to holding one of its own to account for embezzling party funds, the urgency mysteriously disappears.Meanwhile, Scottish Labour, which called this debate, might want to reflect on its party’s sleazy history. After all, its hero, Lord Mandelson, was twice for...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The member must be heard.
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Instead of full transparency, we have had silence, deflection and obstruction. The First Minister likes to lecture others about integrity, yet he still refuses to put country before party. If he truly believes in restoring public trust, he must stop hiding behind lawyers and f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, no, minister. The member does not have to take interventions.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Ah, come on!
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Forgive me, but I wish to make progress.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Amanda Lindsay (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I support this debate and back calls for a full parliamentary inquiry into the shocking embezzlement of party funds by Peter Murrell.The Scottish people deserve the truth. For years, the SNP has presented itself as a slick, professional political machine. In reality, it has op...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I think that Anas Sarwar would be horrified if a former or a current leader of a political party told its members how they should vote on a committee decision. Interruption. That is for committees to decide, and I am not going to instruct any—Interruption. Look at him laughing...
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Mr Harvie says that committees in this Parliament could investigate certain prosecutions. To clarify, if a motion came to the justice committee, would his party support such an investigation by the justice committee?
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I beg your pardon, Presiding Officer. I was just discovering how much some speeches improve when I remove my hearing aids.Sadly, today, we have very much seen the debate that I expected. There has been some opportunistic partisanship dressed up as principled concern, and there...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2019

04 Jun 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Whole-life Custody Sentences
Regan, Ash SNP Edinburgh Eastern Watch on SPTV

One of the most difficult and important decisions that anyone working in our criminal justice system can face is that which is faced by High Court judges who are tasked with sentencing those who are convicted of the most appalling crimes, such as serial murder, the murder of police officers or others who are tasked with protecting the public, and horrific sexual crimes, which are often committed against our most vulnerable citizens.

It is, of course, vital that the public has confidence in our justice system’s ability to deal effectively with those who are convicted of the most terrible crimes and that judges have the powers that they need to sentence appropriately the most serious offenders that come before the High Court.

The Appeal Court has confirmed that Scottish courts can impose a punishment part that exceeds the rest of an offender’s life. In 2009, in the case of HMA v Boyle, the court stated:

“while the statute does not empower the judge to specify a ‘whole life’ period, in an appropriate case a prisoner in Scotland may be sentenced to a period which in practical terms will extend until his or her death.”

For example, Angus Sinclair, who was convicted of the World’s End murders in 2014, was sentenced to life imprisonment with a punishment part of 37 years. That meant that he would not have been able to apply for parole until he was 106 years old.

There are other examples of people who were convicted of the very worst crimes having been given punishment parts of 30 years or more. Thomas Smith, who was convicted of the murder and sexual abuse of a woman and her 10-year-old daughter, was sentenced in 2010 to a life sentence with a punishment part of 32 years. James McDonald and Raymond Anderson, who were convicted of murder, received life sentences with a punishment part of 30 years.

It is important to remember that the punishment part of a life sentence only sets the minimum period that the convicted person must spend in prison before being able to apply for parole. Whatever the punishment part of their sentence, someone who is given a life sentence will remain in prison for as long as they are considered to be a risk to the public. It is for the independent Parole Board for Scotland to consider whether a prisoner no longer represents a risk to public safety, and it is worth noting that the Parole Board directed the release of only 35 of the 342 life sentence prisoners who were referred to it in 2017-18. Of the 67 prisoners serving an order for lifelong restriction who were considered by the Parole Board in that year, none were directed to be released.

Any life sentence prisoner who is approved for release by the Parole Board is subject to a life licence and continuing supervision in the community. If they breach the terms of that licence, they can be recalled to custody. Therefore, the court already has the power to impose very long punishment parts on people who are convicted of the most serious crimes, and, when a life sentence prisoner has served the punishment part, they can be released only if they are not considered to pose an unacceptable risk to public safety.

For those reasons, I am not persuaded that Liam Kerr’s proposal for whole-life sentences would add to the extensive powers that Scotland’s courts already have to deal with the most serious cases that come before them, and I am not alone in that. On 29 May, Mike Nellis, a professor of criminal and community justice at the University of Strathclyde, was interviewed on “Good Morning Scotland”. He said that Mr Kerr’s proposal is

“exaggerating the importance of ... creating whole-life custody”.

I hope that the Parliament agrees that it is important that we take an evidence-based approach to criminal law reform and prevention and that any changes that we make to the sentencing powers of our courts will make a real difference. We will, of course, carefully consider any proposals for reform of our sentencing law that are put forward, but I am not persuaded that whole-life sentences would make a real and practical difference to the ability of the courts and the justice system to deal with the most serious offenders.

I move amendment S5M-17503.2, in the name of Humza Yousaf, to leave out from “believes that” to end and insert:

“notes that the courts’ powers to deal with the most serious offenders have been strengthened by the introduction of orders for lifelong restriction in 2006 and the reforms to clarify the calculation of the punishment part of discretionary life sentences in the Criminal Cases (Punishment and Review) (Scotland) Act 2012; acknowledges that the Parliament will give appropriate consideration to any further proposals to enhance the courts’ sentencing power, but notes that Scotland’s judges can already impose a punishment part of a life sentence that extends beyond the likely remainder of a prisoner’s life in appropriate cases.”

14:35  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17503, in the name of Liam Kerr, on whole-life custody sentences. 14:22
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Imagine you are sitting in the High Court in Glasgow. You have spent weeks or perhaps even months sitting through a trial for the brutal, calculated and remo...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Liam Kerr Con
I will.
John Finnie Green
I am grateful to the member. I know that he does not like the Parole Board for Scotland, but does he have no confidence at all in its judgment in these matters?
Liam Kerr Con
I thank Mr Finnie for the intervention. On the contrary, the Parole Board does a very difficult job. The point that I am making, if he will allow me to devel...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
I ask Mr Johnson to be very quick.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Is that actually correct? Do judges not have the ability to request an assessment for an order for lifelong restriction, which would do exactly that, if the ...
Liam Kerr Con
There is an awful lot of misunderstanding in the debate about whether judges in Scotland can hand down a life sentence. It is very disappointing to see such ...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
If it is brief, Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay Lab
Why does Mr Kerr not cut to the chase and tell us the reality? What he probably wants is to bring back the death penalty.
Liam Kerr Con
I do not thank Mr Findlay for wasting my time with his intervention. Of course I do not think that, Mr Findlay; just sit down. Some people accept that we do...
The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Denham) SNP
One of the most difficult and important decisions that anyone working in our criminal justice system can face is that which is faced by High Court judges who...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The proposed bill is a meaningless stunt. The Tories argue that it would be another tool in the sentencing box for judges, but, if that is an attempt to make...
Liam Kerr Con
I do not doubt that Pauline McNeill’s point will be picked up in the closing speeches. We are not compromising the independence of the judiciary at all—not o...
Pauline McNeill Lab
I will deal with the member’s point when I outline what I think would be the right way forward for guidelines and sentencing. The proposed bill also states ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call John Finnie to open for the Green Party. 14:41
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Liam Kerr was with me at this morning’s Justice Committee meeting, in which we discussed the presumption against short sentences. The committee is deliberati...
Liam Kerr Con
To answer those points, I can tell John Finnie that the proposal is not a stunt, because I have been working on it for the guts of the past two years. A stun...
John Finnie Green
Of course, I acknowledge the work that goes into a member’s bill. Again, Liam Kerr had the good grace to say that someone being sentenced for 37 years has be...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Is it Mr Finnie’s view that the vast prison population will always be subject to rehabilitation and will never present a danger to the public? We are targeti...
John Finnie Green
Mrs Mitchell identifies a group of individuals—fortunately, it is a small group—for whom provisions are already in place: they are unlikely to be given parol...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Liam McArthur to open for the Liberal Democrats. 14:47
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Even after Liam Kerr’s performance this afternoon, I firmly believe that, when it comes to justice, his instincts are broadly liberal. I see him more in the ...
Liam Kerr Con
I do not recognise Mr McArthur’s characterisation. The motion, which I have made very short and to the point, is clear: Scotland’s judges should have the pow...
Liam McArthur LD
As I have made abundantly clear, I do not agree. In sentencing, a judge will set a punishment part, which is the minimum term that must be spent in prison. ...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
No, thank you. We also need to keep under review the sentencing options that are available to our courts, although the process for doing so is the one that ...