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Showing 60 of 2,096,198 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,026. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
That concludes the urgent question. We will have a one-minute break to switch over, after which we will resume with portfolio questions.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I understand the motivation behind Mr Smith’s questions. He will understand that Police Scotland, the Courts and Tribunals Service and the Crown are rightly independent of Government. However, what we are able to see from the footage that Mr Kerr and Mr Smith have alluded to s...
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I commend Paul Sweeney for his contributions in the chamber. There is a lot of unanimity across the Parliament, and we should all be careful with our words in general when discussing such matters.These are aggravated offences. I commend the cabinet secretary for his response, ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I agree with Mr Kerr’s points. Of course, there is a right to protest and to organise peacefully, but that is not what we saw last night. We saw thuggery and intimidatory tactics seeking to divide communities. They will not succeed in Scotland.Last night, I was in live dialogu...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Looking at the footage of last night’s events, we see that it was not protest but criminal disorder. Families should be able to go about their daily lives in Scotland without fear of violence, intimidation or public disorder from a gang of balaclava-clad hooligans.Will the cab...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
In the first instance, those efforts are being led by Police Scotland in the work that it is doing to reassure communities across Scotland. Work is ongoing in Government to ensure that we are able to protect and enhance communities, including minority ethnic groups and religio...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The scenes in Glasgow city centre and in other parts of Scotland—and, indeed, in Belfast—were truly shocking. Those scenes and all racism must be condemned by all parties in the chamber. Shame on those who choose not to do so.How will the Scottish Government reach out to and w...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I fundamentally and completely agree with what Paul Sweeney has said—I believe that to my core. We are a welcoming nation. We have benefited from migration to this country and we continue to benefit from it. I say that particularly given the offices that I have held in health ...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Some members of the Parliament have sought to fan the flames of division with continual talk of “strangers” and calls for further protests tonight. Does the cabinet secretary agree that every one of us in the Parliament has a duty to calm tensions in this country and not to in...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Before Paul Sweeney comes back in, I say to him that I am looking for questions rather than speeches. Other members are keen to come in, so it is important that we keep questions as brief as possible.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I completely agree with everything that Paul Sweeney has put on the record in his supplementary question. The Scottish Government’s approach is grounded in tackling hate consistently and proportionately across all communities, which is underpinned by a zero-tolerance stance on...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Last night, racist thugs stormed through the centre of Glasgow under the white nationalist slogan “White lives matter”. Members of the public were attacked indiscriminately because of the colour of their skin, and two police officers were injured. My prayers are with those who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The actions of a very small number of individuals in parts of Scotland last night, which included the assaulting of police officers and members of minority ethnic communities, are shocking and unacceptable. Violence and racism have no place on our streets, and I utterly condem...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
To ask the Scottish Government what urgent action it will take in response to the reported violent racist demonstrations that took place last night in Glasgow.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
14:04
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Today’s business begins with the results of the elections for committee conveners. I will announce the results for each committee in turn.Stuart McMillan has been elected as convener of the Climate Action Committee. The total number of ballots was 121 and the results were as f...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is disappointing that Mr Hoy does not welcome the prospect of a GP walk-in service for Stranraer. The important point is that the purpose of GP walk-in services is to free up capacity in the primary care system, so that people across our constituencies and regions can be se...
Craig Hoy (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is 77 miles from Sanquhar to Stranraer, which is a journey that takes a minimum of two hours by car or at least four hours by bus. Given that my constituents will be expected to make that journey to access the GP walk-in centre in Stranraer, does that not expose the policy ...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I expect the Glasgow site to open later this month. I very much appreciate the health board’s hard work to get the services up and running. I am sure that Michelle Campbell will join me in welcoming the opening of the sites and thanking our hard-working national health service...
Michelle Campbell (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Work is well under way in preparation for Glasgow’s first walk-in clinic opening. Can the Scottish Government offer an update on when that wonderful resource for the good people of Cardonald will be open?
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Ms Gibson has made an important point about reducing health inequality by improving access to healthcare. The Government is committed to providing a North Ayrshire walk-in service, which was one of the 14 additional services that were announced. That brings the total number of...
Patricia Gibson SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
North Ayrshire’s people have Scotland’s lowest healthy life expectancy. The average adult remains in full health until just 53 years old. More than 28 per cent of people live with a long-term health condition, which is 6 per cent higher than the Scottish average. In view of th...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care (Angela Constance) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I have committed to expanding the walk-in service programme and will set out how I will do so in the first 100 days of this Government. Health boards were previously asked to generate proposals that considered their populations’ needs, taking into account local issues and circ...
Patricia Gibson (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
To ask the Scottish Government when it expects a general practitioner walk-in centre to open in North Ayrshire. (S7O-00023)
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
The short answer is yes. I am happy to meet Ms Minto or any other member to discuss the matter further. The challenge of multiple organisations drawing on small rural populations is not new. The SFRS works collaboratively with a range of partners, including the coastguard serv...
Jenni Minto (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I appreciate that these are independent decisions to be made by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, but I am interested to know whether the Scottish Government is looking at the cumulative impact of those changes on, for example, other rescue services such as the coastguard,...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I am more than happy to explore that with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service in order to ensure that we are in a position to respond to the changing nature of fire and flood risk across Scotland. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s very successful prevention activities, a...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
Ministers previously told Parliament that almost £1 million of specialist wildfire pumping units would be deployed within weeks. A Scottish Conservative freedom of information request later revealed that they were still not operational, during Scotland’s worst wildfire season ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
These are independent decisions for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to make, but it is open to Parliament to take a view on those matters—in the way that a view is normally taken, for example, on investigations undertaken through the committee structure—or otherwise. Obvi...
Joe Fagan Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
There is profound concern about the potential outcomes of the service delivery review, not least from the firefighters and their union. Given the gravity of the decisions that are about to be made, does the Government agree that there should be full parliamentary scrutiny and ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I met the SFRS board chair on 4 June, when we discussed the overall objectives of the service delivery review and the consultation and outreach process that the SFRS has undertaken. Recent large fires in Glasgow and Fife have been dealt with commendably by our front-line firef...
Joe Fagan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service board regarding the outcome of the service delivery review that is due to be considered on 22 June. (S7O-00022)
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am happy to answer.If Mr Cole-Hamilton wishes to write to me, I will write back to him as swiftly as I possibly can.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That was not quite on the nose for the general question, but do you want to respond, cabinet secretary?
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) LD Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I hope that the cabinet secretary will agree that one of the safest ways to get students from Kirkliston in my constituency to their catchment high school in South Queensferry is via the council-funded coach service that has been operating well there for several years. A decis...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I realise that everyone is finding their feet, including me. I remind members that they should only press their button if they want to ask a supplementary to the general question that has been asked.Alex Cole-Hamilton has a supplementary.
Lloyd Melville (Angus South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
My apologies, Presiding Officer. I pressed my button in error, thinking that I would have to do that for my general question later on.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Lloyd Melville has a supplementary.
Julie MacDougall Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I apologise.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That is not relevant to this question. We are on supplementaries to the question that Patrick Harvie asked.
Julie MacDougall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I recently met the chief executive of Forth Valley College. It was incredibly harrowing to hear about how apprenticeship courses are being cut—
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Julie MacDougall has a supplementary.
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Mr Harvie will be pleased to know that £3.2 million is still going to regional transport partnerships—£1.6 million will be available for local direct awards and £1.4 million is going to bikeability schemes, which all our weans can benefit from. Of course, that forms part of a ...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am sorry that the cabinet secretary did not choose to answer that question by explaining why the cut took place and why it took place during the election purdah period. I have returned to my job to meet local community organisations that are doing the work that the Scottish ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport (Stephen Flynn) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I thank Patrick Harvie for his question, because it gives me the opportunity to restate what the First Minister said. We support cycling, walking and wheeling, which is why £226 million-worth of investment is going into sustainable and active travel. I am very proud of that—I ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
To ask the Scottish Government, in light of comments made by the First Minister in the Parliament on 2 June that the Scottish Government prioritises active and safe travel routes and the encouragement of cycling, walking and wheeling, for what reason Transport Scotland reporte...
Stephen Kerr Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Thank you.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Yes.
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. For guidance, would it be possible for the same person to be nominated again in those circumstances?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
The process is opened again for further nominations. However, to be clear, any other member who is nominated will have to come from the party from which the original member was selected.
Helen McDade Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
What happens then?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
If a candidate receives the majority of votes, that candidate will become the committee convener. If the majority is against it, that candidate will not be the committee convener.
Helen McDade (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I just wonder what the process is. Can you explain what happens once a vote has been cast when there is only one candidate, so that we know what we are voting against?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Willie Rennie’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Fifteen out of 15 convenerships will be subject to secret ballots.I have also received two valid nominations for convener of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. The nomin...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Craig Hoy’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Willie Rennie has been nominated as convener of the Transport Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was received.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Mark Ruskell’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Craig Hoy has been nominated as convener of the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button n...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Bob Doris’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Mark Ruskell has been nominated as convener of the Rural Affairs Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Paul Sweeney’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Bob Doris has been nominated as convener of the Public Service Reform Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Neil Bibby’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Paul Sweeney has been nominated as convener of the Public Petitions Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Helen McDade’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Neil Bibby has been nominated as convener of the Public Audit Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 May 2019

14 May 2019 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
The Place Principle
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

The Labour manifesto “For the Many Not the Few” sets out a plan for £70 billion-odd of investment coming to Scotland over the next decade. That is the kind of investment that we need. I am happy to work with other parties. I know that the Conservative Party supports austerity, but I am happy to work with other parties to look for investment. That is the level of ambition that we need for Scotland, and that is the ambition that John McDonnell, as shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, is putting forward in that manifesto.

Let us not live in a bubble in this place. The reality is that, in every community across Scotland, problems exist with potholes, pavements and cuts to local services. We cannot gloss over the impacts of austerity: nor should we, for austerity is not an economic choice, but a political choice that is supported by politicians here. The late Martin McGuinness said:

“Austerity is devastating ... communities. The working poor, public sector workers, the disabled and the vulnerable are the hardest hit by this bankrupt and ideologically driven policy.”

The place principle is a useful framework that recognises that communities must be central to decision making, and that the most sustainable and beneficial outcomes are achieved when policy and practice integrate health, housing, environment, transport, community and spatial planning. However, let us not use such frameworks to mask what is really going on, because if we do, the only people whom we will be fooling will be ourselves—not the communities that we represent.

The Jimmy Reid Foundation and UNISON report “The Contribution Local Government Makes to our Communities and the Local Economy” is now a year old, but it is more relevant than ever. It states that changes such as cutting library and leisure centre opening hours

“may on the face of it seem an incremental change”

but

“these changes can prevent some individuals in communities accessing valuable services. Poorer households are more reliant on a range of public services so feel the cumulative impacts of multiple small cuts. For those on low incomes, especially, these small changes may have a sizeable impact and present significant or outright barriers to accessing services”.

An analysis by Labour that was published in December found that there has been a £22 million reduction in spending on libraries over the past six years. According to official figures, a total of 69 libraries have closed across Scotland since 2011, including 30 in 2017, which was up from 15 in the previous year. The impact on cultural services has been far reaching, with more than £5 million having been cut from funding for museums and galleries. Almost £20 million has been cut from budgets for sports facilities, while more than £30 million has been cut from budgets for community parks and open spaces.

In Fife, many really good projects that were built around the principle of social prescribing have disappeared as the funding has dried up. The place principle will never translate into meaningful community participation if cuts are made not only to the services that people rely on but to the services that enrich their lives and make them feel part of the community.

A recent survey by Unison found that council workers identified a lack of front-line staff as being one of the biggest challenges that face Scottish local authorities. More than two thirds of those who were questioned said that local residents did not receive the help that they needed when they needed it, and 51 per cent were not confident that vulnerable people were safe and cared for.

During the passage of the Planning (Scotland) Bill, the Royal Town Planning Institute Scotland said that between 2009 and 2016, local authorities lost, on average, 23 per cent of planning staff, and that over the same period, planning services’ budgets were cut by an average of 32.5 per cent.

I accept that people genuinely want to use the place principle to make the changes that are necessary, but I say to members who are present in the chamber that if they do not recognise the impact of failed Tory austerity on communities in Scotland, they will not wake up to what needs to happen, and to the levels of investment that need to go into our country in order to ensure that we achieve the ambitions that the cabinet secretary has set out.

I move amendment S5M-17265.2, to insert at end:

“; recognises the negative impact of austerity on local services and local communities, and understands that a more joined-up, collaborative and participative approach to services requires sufficient resources to empower local people and those working in local services.”

15:51  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-17265, in the name of Aileen Campbell, on adopting the place principle. 15:28
The Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local Government (Aileen Campbell) SNP
I am delighted to open this debate on the place principle. Fundamentally, it is an approach that seeks to ensure that we, as policy makers, make better decis...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Back in the real world, communities are experiencing cuts to youth work and cuts to environmental services, roads are in a poorer condition, places are more ...
Aileen Campbell SNP
Back in the real world, we have the collaboration and co-operation of COSLA and a host of different partners—not forgetting, most importantly, communities th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Before we hear Mr Rowley’s intervention, I say to members that there is time for interventions—you will get your time back.
Alex Rowley Lab
I do not know whether the cabinet secretary is trying to rewrite the Christie report, because one of its key messages was about preventative spend: it said t...
Aileen Campbell SNP
I mentioned the need for a “preventative” approach. I am certainly not seeking to rewrite the Christie report. I totally subscribe to the Christie principles...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
This morning, I read the weekly briefing from Unison Scotland, my trade union, and I noted that, on this debate, it says the following: “The place principle...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Is Mr Rowley suggesting that potholes have happened only under austerity?
Alex Rowley Lab
I am saying that we need look only at the evidence of the cuts to council budgets over the past decade to see the impact that austerity is having and, theref...
Aileen Campbell SNP
The debate is about trying to make better use of the resources and public funds that we have in order to make good on the Christie principles and on the noti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Before you respond, Mr Rowley, I remind the cabinet secretary not to use the term “you” and to speak through the chair, please.
Aileen Campbell SNP
I apologise, Presiding Officer.
Alex Rowley Lab
The Labour manifesto “For the Many Not the Few” sets out a plan for £70 billion-odd of investment coming to Scotland over the next decade. That is the kind o...
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
In 2012, when I was appointed to my local council’s planning committee, I was given a publication entitled “Placemaking and design” which, I was informed, co...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I thank the Scottish Government for bringing the topic to debate this afternoon. The Greens are happy to support the motion, and we support the place princip...
Neil Findlay Lab
How many of the people who come to Mr Wightman’s surgeries, or email or write to him, talk about the cuts to local government? Is it a significant part of hi...
Andy Wightman Green
Yes. People come to me talking about the pressures faced by local government and the cuts that are taking place across the country. I agree—it is in a bad pl...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
It is a pleasure to speak in the debate, which, judging by the contributions so far, will be fairly positive. As every member will agree, Scotland’s communi...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. Our happiness and wellbeing depend to a great extent on the place in which we live. We should have p...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I will highlight excellent community-led work that is taking place in my constituency. It has been a privilege to support such efforts in the communities tha...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I am sure that many of us love the places that we live in; we are connected to them and to the people who live around us. Across Scotland, communities have o...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
I welcome this debate and the dialogue on the place principle. Listening to some colleagues in the chamber, one would think that life was perfect before the ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
We all agree that the place principle is a good one but that it probably needs more work in practice. As a councillor in Edinburgh, I was very aware of the s...
Stuart McMillan SNP
If Mr Balfour reads the Official Report, he will see that I said that there is still a journey to be undertaken but I welcome the progress that has been made.
Jeremy Balfour Con
I think the difference is that I am a pessimist and Stuart McMillan is an optimist. I fully relate to what he said. Something that we all—in both the Scot...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
There is good news from East Ayrshire, at least, which I hope might bring a smile to the faces of some of the gloomsters in the chamber. When I read the bri...
Angela Constance (Almond Valley) (SNP) SNP
In advance of today’s debate, I took the time to read the Scottish Government’s three-page factsheet that explains the place principle. The nub of it is that...
Alex Rowley Lab
I have made it clear that there is nothing in the Government’s motion that I could disagree with. However, sometimes there is a sense that the Parliament is ...
Willie Coffey SNP
I invite Alex Rowley and his colleagues to come down to East Ayrshire and see the process working in practice. He would be very welcome to come and see it.