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Showing 60 of 2,095,827 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,026. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
That concludes the urgent question. We will have a one-minute break to switch over, after which we will resume with portfolio questions.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I understand the motivation behind Mr Smith’s questions. He will understand that Police Scotland, the Courts and Tribunals Service and the Crown are rightly independent of Government. However, what we are able to see from the footage that Mr Kerr and Mr Smith have alluded to s...
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I commend Paul Sweeney for his contributions in the chamber. There is a lot of unanimity across the Parliament, and we should all be careful with our words in general when discussing such matters.These are aggravated offences. I commend the cabinet secretary for his response, ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I agree with Mr Kerr’s points. Of course, there is a right to protest and to organise peacefully, but that is not what we saw last night. We saw thuggery and intimidatory tactics seeking to divide communities. They will not succeed in Scotland.Last night, I was in live dialogu...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Looking at the footage of last night’s events, we see that it was not protest but criminal disorder. Families should be able to go about their daily lives in Scotland without fear of violence, intimidation or public disorder from a gang of balaclava-clad hooligans.Will the cab...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
In the first instance, those efforts are being led by Police Scotland in the work that it is doing to reassure communities across Scotland. Work is ongoing in Government to ensure that we are able to protect and enhance communities, including minority ethnic groups and religio...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The scenes in Glasgow city centre and in other parts of Scotland—and, indeed, in Belfast—were truly shocking. Those scenes and all racism must be condemned by all parties in the chamber. Shame on those who choose not to do so.How will the Scottish Government reach out to and w...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I fundamentally and completely agree with what Paul Sweeney has said—I believe that to my core. We are a welcoming nation. We have benefited from migration to this country and we continue to benefit from it. I say that particularly given the offices that I have held in health ...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Some members of the Parliament have sought to fan the flames of division with continual talk of “strangers” and calls for further protests tonight. Does the cabinet secretary agree that every one of us in the Parliament has a duty to calm tensions in this country and not to in...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Before Paul Sweeney comes back in, I say to him that I am looking for questions rather than speeches. Other members are keen to come in, so it is important that we keep questions as brief as possible.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I completely agree with everything that Paul Sweeney has put on the record in his supplementary question. The Scottish Government’s approach is grounded in tackling hate consistently and proportionately across all communities, which is underpinned by a zero-tolerance stance on...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Last night, racist thugs stormed through the centre of Glasgow under the white nationalist slogan “White lives matter”. Members of the public were attacked indiscriminately because of the colour of their skin, and two police officers were injured. My prayers are with those who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The actions of a very small number of individuals in parts of Scotland last night, which included the assaulting of police officers and members of minority ethnic communities, are shocking and unacceptable. Violence and racism have no place on our streets, and I utterly condem...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
To ask the Scottish Government what urgent action it will take in response to the reported violent racist demonstrations that took place last night in Glasgow.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
14:04
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Today’s business begins with the results of the elections for committee conveners. I will announce the results for each committee in turn.Stuart McMillan has been elected as convener of the Climate Action Committee. The total number of ballots was 121 and the results were as f...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is disappointing that Mr Hoy does not welcome the prospect of a GP walk-in service for Stranraer. The important point is that the purpose of GP walk-in services is to free up capacity in the primary care system, so that people across our constituencies and regions can be se...
Craig Hoy (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is 77 miles from Sanquhar to Stranraer, which is a journey that takes a minimum of two hours by car or at least four hours by bus. Given that my constituents will be expected to make that journey to access the GP walk-in centre in Stranraer, does that not expose the policy ...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I expect the Glasgow site to open later this month. I very much appreciate the health board’s hard work to get the services up and running. I am sure that Michelle Campbell will join me in welcoming the opening of the sites and thanking our hard-working national health service...
Michelle Campbell (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Work is well under way in preparation for Glasgow’s first walk-in clinic opening. Can the Scottish Government offer an update on when that wonderful resource for the good people of Cardonald will be open?
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Ms Gibson has made an important point about reducing health inequality by improving access to healthcare. The Government is committed to providing a North Ayrshire walk-in service, which was one of the 14 additional services that were announced. That brings the total number of...
Patricia Gibson SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
North Ayrshire’s people have Scotland’s lowest healthy life expectancy. The average adult remains in full health until just 53 years old. More than 28 per cent of people live with a long-term health condition, which is 6 per cent higher than the Scottish average. In view of th...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care (Angela Constance) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I have committed to expanding the walk-in service programme and will set out how I will do so in the first 100 days of this Government. Health boards were previously asked to generate proposals that considered their populations’ needs, taking into account local issues and circ...
Patricia Gibson (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
To ask the Scottish Government when it expects a general practitioner walk-in centre to open in North Ayrshire. (S7O-00023)
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
The short answer is yes. I am happy to meet Ms Minto or any other member to discuss the matter further. The challenge of multiple organisations drawing on small rural populations is not new. The SFRS works collaboratively with a range of partners, including the coastguard serv...
Jenni Minto (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I appreciate that these are independent decisions to be made by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, but I am interested to know whether the Scottish Government is looking at the cumulative impact of those changes on, for example, other rescue services such as the coastguard,...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I am more than happy to explore that with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service in order to ensure that we are in a position to respond to the changing nature of fire and flood risk across Scotland. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s very successful prevention activities, a...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
Ministers previously told Parliament that almost £1 million of specialist wildfire pumping units would be deployed within weeks. A Scottish Conservative freedom of information request later revealed that they were still not operational, during Scotland’s worst wildfire season ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
These are independent decisions for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to make, but it is open to Parliament to take a view on those matters—in the way that a view is normally taken, for example, on investigations undertaken through the committee structure—or otherwise. Obvi...
Joe Fagan Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
There is profound concern about the potential outcomes of the service delivery review, not least from the firefighters and their union. Given the gravity of the decisions that are about to be made, does the Government agree that there should be full parliamentary scrutiny and ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I met the SFRS board chair on 4 June, when we discussed the overall objectives of the service delivery review and the consultation and outreach process that the SFRS has undertaken. Recent large fires in Glasgow and Fife have been dealt with commendably by our front-line firef...
Joe Fagan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service board regarding the outcome of the service delivery review that is due to be considered on 22 June. (S7O-00022)
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am happy to answer.If Mr Cole-Hamilton wishes to write to me, I will write back to him as swiftly as I possibly can.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That was not quite on the nose for the general question, but do you want to respond, cabinet secretary?
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) LD Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I hope that the cabinet secretary will agree that one of the safest ways to get students from Kirkliston in my constituency to their catchment high school in South Queensferry is via the council-funded coach service that has been operating well there for several years. A decis...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I realise that everyone is finding their feet, including me. I remind members that they should only press their button if they want to ask a supplementary to the general question that has been asked.Alex Cole-Hamilton has a supplementary.
Lloyd Melville (Angus South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
My apologies, Presiding Officer. I pressed my button in error, thinking that I would have to do that for my general question later on.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Lloyd Melville has a supplementary.
Julie MacDougall Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I apologise.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That is not relevant to this question. We are on supplementaries to the question that Patrick Harvie asked.
Julie MacDougall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I recently met the chief executive of Forth Valley College. It was incredibly harrowing to hear about how apprenticeship courses are being cut—
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Julie MacDougall has a supplementary.
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Mr Harvie will be pleased to know that £3.2 million is still going to regional transport partnerships—£1.6 million will be available for local direct awards and £1.4 million is going to bikeability schemes, which all our weans can benefit from. Of course, that forms part of a ...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am sorry that the cabinet secretary did not choose to answer that question by explaining why the cut took place and why it took place during the election purdah period. I have returned to my job to meet local community organisations that are doing the work that the Scottish ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport (Stephen Flynn) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I thank Patrick Harvie for his question, because it gives me the opportunity to restate what the First Minister said. We support cycling, walking and wheeling, which is why £226 million-worth of investment is going into sustainable and active travel. I am very proud of that—I ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
To ask the Scottish Government, in light of comments made by the First Minister in the Parliament on 2 June that the Scottish Government prioritises active and safe travel routes and the encouragement of cycling, walking and wheeling, for what reason Transport Scotland reporte...
Stephen Kerr Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Thank you.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Yes.
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. For guidance, would it be possible for the same person to be nominated again in those circumstances?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
The process is opened again for further nominations. However, to be clear, any other member who is nominated will have to come from the party from which the original member was selected.
Helen McDade Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
What happens then?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
If a candidate receives the majority of votes, that candidate will become the committee convener. If the majority is against it, that candidate will not be the committee convener.
Helen McDade (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I just wonder what the process is. Can you explain what happens once a vote has been cast when there is only one candidate, so that we know what we are voting against?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Willie Rennie’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Fifteen out of 15 convenerships will be subject to secret ballots.I have also received two valid nominations for convener of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. The nomin...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Craig Hoy’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Willie Rennie has been nominated as convener of the Transport Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was received.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Mark Ruskell’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Craig Hoy has been nominated as convener of the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button n...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Bob Doris’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Mark Ruskell has been nominated as convener of the Rural Affairs Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Paul Sweeney’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Bob Doris has been nominated as convener of the Public Service Reform Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Neil Bibby’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Paul Sweeney has been nominated as convener of the Public Petitions Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Helen McDade’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Neil Bibby has been nominated as convener of the Public Audit Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
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Committee

Education and Skills Committee 19 September 2018

19 Sep 2018 · S5 · Education and Skills Committee
Item of business
2018 Exam Diet (Curriculum and Attainment Trends)
Professor Jim Scott (University of Dundee) Watch on SPTV
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is something of a challenge to condense all that has happened in curriculum for excellence into about three minutes, but I will do my best. I will not read out my evidence on attainment or the curriculum, because the committee has seen that. What I will say is that I have drawn evidence by sieving the documentary pile of every school and local authority: the websites, the papers—the lot. I have examined agency papers and Government papers, and I have interviewed 100 of the governance actors, to the level of headteacher and depute headteacher. It is by triangulation of a great deal of evidence that the conclusions in my paper arise. Curriculum for excellence is a very difficult, but highly commendable, thing for Scotland to achieve, and I spent many years of my professional life trying to help it do just that. It is worth noting that major initiatives tend to take 10 to 15 years to work through, and in the past they tend to have covered two years of the secondary curriculum or aspects of the primary curriculum. We are attempting to improve the entire curriculum. One would have expected, therefore, that there would be issues and that the process would take a significant period. My evidence suggests that there are issues and that we are by no means at the end of the process. I have looked at two parts of the curriculum: the broad general education in secondary 1 to secondary 3 and the senior phase in S4 to S6. Members have in their possession a cut-up version of a map of the entire Scottish S1 to S3 curriculum. It demonstrates beyond any doubt that the things that Douglas Osler, when he was the senior chief inspector of schools back in the late 90s, told us not to do have been implemented in the flesh in Scottish schools. There is significant fragmentation of the curriculum; taster courses have reappeared in many schools, despite the fact that Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Education always warned us not to do that; and languages appear or do not appear. I was hoping that I could smile at Dr Allan, because he and I have had many conversations about the one-plus-two model. The reality of the situation is that that model is by no means implemented in the broad general education, although it should be. Approximately two thirds of Scottish schools more or less implement the one-plus-two process. In the S4, S5 and S6 curriculum, the real problem lies in S4. However, there is a subterranean problem there, because much of the problem lies in the articulation of S3 and S4. If you have tried to work your way through the curriculum map that I supplied you with, you will see that articulation—the idea that courses are coherent and progressive, which are things that the CFE would wish them to be—does not seem to take place. If we look only at the schools that are progressing towards six courses in S4, we see that that happens with anything from eight courses to 24 courses in S1. I suspect that none of us would take the view that eight courses or 24 courses is an appropriate way to educate Scottish children. That happens in S2 as well, but in S3 there appears to be significant confusion in the profession. That is backed up by interviews that I have carried out recently and not so recently. S1 and S2 are often quite consistent, but the progression route through S3 to any one of those six-course, seven-course or eight-course models in S4 can appear to be almost random. In one block of schools that do, say, 16 courses in S1 and S2, you can have 12 to 15 different processes through to the next set of courses in S4. That is not something that we should support. We did away with the curriculum guidelines at the end of the 1990s and replaced them with circular 3/2001 and then curriculum for excellence. All of that allowed headteachers, in communication with their school bodies, to choose the curriculum. It appears that either headteachers or school communities have made some very random choices. There is another layer there, because some Scottish local authorities have chosen to mandate their schools to carry out a certain core structure. That is evident in the map that I supplied to the committee to show what happens in the S4 curriculum. Many of the local authorities in the north have opted for six courses; most of the rest have opted for something else. The Scottish Parliament information centre and I have produced numbers that demonstrate what is happening in S4 in Scotland. I have just finished another survey of all 359 Scottish secondary schools, so I can tell you that the latest position is that 54 per cent of Scottish secondary schools are offering their children—I say this carefully—only six courses. Slightly less than one third are offering seven courses and 11 are offering eight courses. There are still three or four hardy souls who are offering five courses. The problem is in the detail for the child, because in the end it does not matter tuppence what the curriculum structure is unless it meets the needs of the child. The evidence demonstrates that the problem for many middle and upper-ability children is that their choice is being squeezed, particularly in the five and six-course schools. What happens in a six-course S4 school is that most children choose maths and English—understandably—and then choose two sciences and a social subject or two social subjects and a science, depending on their aspirations. That leaves the entire remainder of the Scottish curriculum fighting for one column in those schools. Needless to say, much of what would have been a beneficial experience for those children in times past has gone. That obviously has an impact on attainment. Some of my critics have chosen to point out that I have focused on S4. The only reason why I have focused on S4 is that there was data for S4 sooner than there was for S5 and S6; it takes time for these things to work through. However, we will leave that to one side. If things had continued in S4 as they were in 2013—and 2013 was not the strongest of the pre-CFE years; 2011 and 2010 were stronger and 2013 was only a middling year—we would have had an extra 622,000 qualifications in Scotland over the five years since. I struggle to say that in a public forum—it is almost unbelievable. We have chosen to do something different, but that curriculum narrowing has impacted significantly on both the quantity of attainment—I will come back to quality in a minute—and the progression pathways available to children. Most of you are probably aware that I am an ex-headteacher of several schools, which had quite different catchments. In all of them, children who were aiming for a particular thing frequently did not end up doing that because things went wrong in exams, so they had to use other subjects as back-ups in order to move forward. We were able to assure children that those progression pathways were there, but is harder now and almost impossible in a five-course school. Anecdotally, one school in Scotland that chose to do five courses opted to do English, Gaelic native speakers and mathematics as mandatory subjects for two years at the beginning of CFE, which left them with two other subjects for everything else. That is a refined form of madness, I have to say. If one moves on into S5 and S6, one sees that the current mantra is that we should look at leavers’ attainment. I have no problem with that. Those of us who worked in schools and local authorities always looked at leavers’ attainment—there is nothing new there at all. The evidence suggests that things have continued to improve in terms of leavers’ attainment, and that is true. However, if we look at the profile of what has happened with leavers’ attainment, we see that it grew quite strongly from the beginning of recording the data in 2009-10 up to the point when we hit curriculum for evidence. Since then, leavers’ attainment has either grown much more slowly or plateaued, or, in one case, it looks as though it might be beginning to go down. If it is going down, that would be in line with what seems to be happening in the senior school. Level 7—advanced higher—progresses more or less smoothly. There have been a couple of little ripples, but they could be experimental error—there is no suggestion that there is anything wrong there. That is probably not surprising, because the most able children tend to survive changes of system most effectively. They have all the additional benefits. The thing that concerns me most about my curriculum and attainment findings is that it seems that those who are worst affected by curriculum for excellence are at the lower end of the average group of children and in the lower group of children. I do not know a headteacher or educational researcher in Scotland who would not subscribe to the concept of equity. It is something that education professionals spend their lives attempting to achieve. The evidence suggests that equity is not being achieved and that, in fact, things appear to be getting somewhat worse. That is not a happy thing to say to a group of politicians, because that is not what you want either. I was aware that there was a limit, so among the many pieces of school-based evidence that I did not give you is a profile of schools that still declare their attainment. We all understand that, since 2001, parents and children should be consulted about the nature of the curriculum that children experience, but the problem is that the pattern from schools that declare their attainment—not many of them do—demonstrates that, generally, the schools in which attainment has gone down are in less affluent areas. 10:15 There are quite marked profiles on what has happened among schools across Scotland. Some schools have allowed their level 3, level 4 and level 5 attainment to rise and supported that in effective ways. In other schools, there has been no change in attainment. There are other schools in which attainment has gone down a bit or, in a small number of cases, gone down quite significantly. One of my colleagues will talk about our findings in that context later. We have the problem that we do not seem to be achieving excellence. If attainment in S4 has dropped by 33.8 per cent since 2013—again, I find that statistic difficult to say in public—and if equity appears to be diminishing rather than increasing, we have a problem. There are three layers of problems. One lies with the national process. I will just have a drink of water—I do not know why I have a dry mouth while sitting in a political meeting. We might describe curriculum for excellence as a process of four committees and two administrations, and the trouble is that the process has not been smooth. I am a mathematician, so I might be tempted to describe the process as orthogonal, but it might be worse than right angled. We had a national debate, a ministerial response to that national debate, a curriculum review group, a ministerial response to that curriculum review group, then we went to a curriculum board and then another curriculum board. The process of going from one group or board to another is not smooth. I have been involved at the front edge of all the national developments since higher still—and possibly the one before it, to some extent. In all the developments that have gone through, this is the one that has had the most random national governance pathway. The bodies that are responsible for implementing the process are Scottish local authorities. As an ex-headteacher and an ex-local authority officer—on and off—I can say with some feeling that it has become harder and harder for Scottish local authorities to carry out those actions, because their residual level of highly experienced educationalists has diminished over the past 10 to 15 years. Then there is the school situation. I do not know whether the committee speaks to headteachers a great deal, but we would all commonly accept that not all headteachers are curricular experts. All headteachers have quite different skill sets, so if there is no curricular guidance to guide headteachers, we must assume that they will do the best that they can in the circumstances. They will meet the needs of their constituency as best they understand it. I used to be chairman of the building our curriculum self-help group, which is the only body in Scotland that has produced consistent exemplification of how curriculum for excellence can be implemented in secondary schools. My successor was a guy from Glasgow called Gerry Lyons, whom I suspect the committee might have heard of. The two of us have spent considerable time trying to support schools. One thing that we learned from holding national conferences year after year through the curriculum for excellence development process was that headteachers claimed that they were uncertain, that they were not as well informed as they should be and that their colleagues were confused by going to different national meetings with different national agencies, because some said one thing and some said another. Before I came to the meeting, I did a small resurvey with some of my key witnesses to check whether they were still saying those sorts of things. The response was that the situation is better, but that some recent changes have resown some confusion. There are three fronts. On the curriculum, there is fragmentation, narrowing and—in one or two cases—excess broadening. On attainment, there has been a significant drop in fourth year and the beginning of a drop, by the looks of it, in fifth year. There is also the point about the ability of the various bodies in a school community to come together and improve things. There are challenges in all those areas. Those challenges are not insurmountable, but my bottom line to you would be in line with that of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development 2015 report, which suggested that there should be a reconceptualisation of CFE and, to underpin that reconceptualisation—I remember my evidence to the committee that wrote that report—the CFE process, documentation and support materials should be worked through more effectively.

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Agenda item 4 is an evidence-taking session on the curriculum and attainment trends in the 2018 exam diet. I am very pleased to welcome to the meeting Dr Ala...
Professor Jim Scott (University of Dundee)
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is something of a challenge to condense all that has happened in curriculum for excellence into about three minutes, b...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Professor Scott. I invite Dr Britton to make a contribution.
Dr Alan Britton (University of Glasgow)
I thank the committee for inviting me. I will try to offer my insights into the issues that are under consideration. My analysis mainly stems from a long-st...
Dr Marina Shapira (University of Stirling)
I want to talk about findings from our recently finished paper on the decline in the number of subject choices in S4. We have done other research on the narr...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Dr Shapira. Dr Brown, would you like to make an opening statement?
Dr Janet Brown (Scottish Qualifications Authority)
I have some very brief comments to explain the role of the Scottish Qualifications Authority. As the committee will know, we are required to develop, validat...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Dr Brown. I invite our deputy convener to open the questioning. Committee members should indicate to me whether they would like to come...
Johann Lamont Lab
I thank all our witnesses for their remarks, which have been an important first step in our trying to understand what is happening. I do not think that, in t...
Professor Scott
Your perception of what is happening and what we have all tried to say is largely correct. There is a problem for the most able children. Neither Janet Brown...
Johann Lamont Lab
This is a personal obsession, because standard grade was introduced when I was teaching and the joy of having a certificated rather than non-certificated cla...
Professor Scott
One wants to encourage achievement. If we look at the leaver data from 2009-10, the number of children leaving school with no qualification is slowly creepin...
Dr Shapira
Our study is on the level of schools and not on the level of pupils. What we see at the moment is a link between the level of school area deprivation, the nu...
Johann Lamont Lab
Is it true that, in a more deprived area, a child who is very well supported by their family and is very able will not be able to compete to get into univers...
Dr Shapira
If their school uniformly offers five or six subjects, there is no way that the child would be—
Johann Lamont Lab
Is there any research that looks at the cohort of young people who are able to compete to get to university or college? With a cap, it follows logically that...
Dr Shapira
In our study, we are looking at the impact of the curriculum for excellence on subject choices, attainment and the transition into higher education. Research...
The Convener SNP
I want to move on. Members have been asked to address their questions to specific panel members. If other members of the panel would like to pick up any poin...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will roll my questions into one to get through them as quickly as possible. I come at the issue from the simplistic point of view that our schools should m...
Professor Scott
The obvious answer to your last question is that it must. I am not sure that I would describe what is happening in S1 to S3 as chaos. I think that it is a m...
The Convener SNP
We move on to a question from Liz Smith.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Thank you, convener, and congratulations on your new role. I have a question for Dr Brown. In the submissions from Professor Scott and Dr Britton, they both...
Dr Brown
Part of the problem, as Jim Scott highlighted, is that the curriculum was for three to 18, and we need to think about that. The extension of broad general ed...
Liz Smith Con
Is that lack of connection more to do with what non-traditional, extra-vocational courses—which have been pretty successful, in many cases—are on offer? Is t...
Dr Brown
That is a very complicated question. Jim Scott pointed out that, if candidates go from taking eight subjects to six subjects, they should have more time. How...
Liz Smith Con
Previously, the committee has discussed national 4. I think that you are in the middle of a review of national 4. When will that review be finished?
Dr Brown
The review is being done by the curriculum and assessment board, which is due to meet in a couple of weeks. We have a Scottish education council meeting tomo...
Liz Smith Con
That recommendation will be made to the Scottish Government.
Dr Brown
Yes.
Professor Scott
I have a few associated points, if I can remember them all. I was part of the process with the 16 to 18 curriculum that the SQA carried through. As Janet Br...