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Showing 60 of 2,095,827 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,026. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
That concludes the urgent question. We will have a one-minute break to switch over, after which we will resume with portfolio questions.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I understand the motivation behind Mr Smith’s questions. He will understand that Police Scotland, the Courts and Tribunals Service and the Crown are rightly independent of Government. However, what we are able to see from the footage that Mr Kerr and Mr Smith have alluded to s...
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I commend Paul Sweeney for his contributions in the chamber. There is a lot of unanimity across the Parliament, and we should all be careful with our words in general when discussing such matters.These are aggravated offences. I commend the cabinet secretary for his response, ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I agree with Mr Kerr’s points. Of course, there is a right to protest and to organise peacefully, but that is not what we saw last night. We saw thuggery and intimidatory tactics seeking to divide communities. They will not succeed in Scotland.Last night, I was in live dialogu...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Looking at the footage of last night’s events, we see that it was not protest but criminal disorder. Families should be able to go about their daily lives in Scotland without fear of violence, intimidation or public disorder from a gang of balaclava-clad hooligans.Will the cab...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
In the first instance, those efforts are being led by Police Scotland in the work that it is doing to reassure communities across Scotland. Work is ongoing in Government to ensure that we are able to protect and enhance communities, including minority ethnic groups and religio...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen and Cambuslang) (SNP) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The scenes in Glasgow city centre and in other parts of Scotland—and, indeed, in Belfast—were truly shocking. Those scenes and all racism must be condemned by all parties in the chamber. Shame on those who choose not to do so.How will the Scottish Government reach out to and w...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I fundamentally and completely agree with what Paul Sweeney has said—I believe that to my core. We are a welcoming nation. We have benefited from migration to this country and we continue to benefit from it. I say that particularly given the offices that I have held in health ...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Some members of the Parliament have sought to fan the flames of division with continual talk of “strangers” and calls for further protests tonight. Does the cabinet secretary agree that every one of us in the Parliament has a duty to calm tensions in this country and not to in...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Before Paul Sweeney comes back in, I say to him that I am looking for questions rather than speeches. Other members are keen to come in, so it is important that we keep questions as brief as possible.
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
I completely agree with everything that Paul Sweeney has put on the record in his supplementary question. The Scottish Government’s approach is grounded in tackling hate consistently and proportionately across all communities, which is underpinned by a zero-tolerance stance on...
Paul Sweeney Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
Last night, racist thugs stormed through the centre of Glasgow under the white nationalist slogan “White lives matter”. Members of the public were attacked indiscriminately because of the colour of their skin, and two police officers were injured. My prayers are with those who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
The actions of a very small number of individuals in parts of Scotland last night, which included the assaulting of police officers and members of minority ethnic communities, are shocking and unacceptable. Violence and racism have no place on our streets, and I utterly condem...
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
To ask the Scottish Government what urgent action it will take in response to the reported violent racist demonstrations that took place last night in Glasgow.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Urgent Question
14:04
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Today’s business begins with the results of the elections for committee conveners. I will announce the results for each committee in turn.Stuart McMillan has been elected as convener of the Climate Action Committee. The total number of ballots was 121 and the results were as f...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is disappointing that Mr Hoy does not welcome the prospect of a GP walk-in service for Stranraer. The important point is that the purpose of GP walk-in services is to free up capacity in the primary care system, so that people across our constituencies and regions can be se...
Craig Hoy (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
It is 77 miles from Sanquhar to Stranraer, which is a journey that takes a minimum of two hours by car or at least four hours by bus. Given that my constituents will be expected to make that journey to access the GP walk-in centre in Stranraer, does that not expose the policy ...
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I expect the Glasgow site to open later this month. I very much appreciate the health board’s hard work to get the services up and running. I am sure that Michelle Campbell will join me in welcoming the opening of the sites and thanking our hard-working national health service...
Michelle Campbell (Renfrewshire North and Cardonald) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Work is well under way in preparation for Glasgow’s first walk-in clinic opening. Can the Scottish Government offer an update on when that wonderful resource for the good people of Cardonald will be open?
Angela Constance SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
Ms Gibson has made an important point about reducing health inequality by improving access to healthcare. The Government is committed to providing a North Ayrshire walk-in service, which was one of the 14 additional services that were announced. That brings the total number of...
Patricia Gibson SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
North Ayrshire’s people have Scotland’s lowest healthy life expectancy. The average adult remains in full health until just 53 years old. More than 28 per cent of people live with a long-term health condition, which is 6 per cent higher than the Scottish average. In view of th...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care (Angela Constance) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
I have committed to expanding the walk-in service programme and will set out how I will do so in the first 100 days of this Government. Health boards were previously asked to generate proposals that considered their populations’ needs, taking into account local issues and circ...
Patricia Gibson (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · GP Walk-in Centres (North Ayrshire)
To ask the Scottish Government when it expects a general practitioner walk-in centre to open in North Ayrshire. (S7O-00023)
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
The short answer is yes. I am happy to meet Ms Minto or any other member to discuss the matter further. The challenge of multiple organisations drawing on small rural populations is not new. The SFRS works collaboratively with a range of partners, including the coastguard serv...
Jenni Minto (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I appreciate that these are independent decisions to be made by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, but I am interested to know whether the Scottish Government is looking at the cumulative impact of those changes on, for example, other rescue services such as the coastguard,...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I am more than happy to explore that with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service in order to ensure that we are in a position to respond to the changing nature of fire and flood risk across Scotland. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s very successful prevention activities, a...
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
Ministers previously told Parliament that almost £1 million of specialist wildfire pumping units would be deployed within weeks. A Scottish Conservative freedom of information request later revealed that they were still not operational, during Scotland’s worst wildfire season ...
Neil Gray SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
These are independent decisions for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to make, but it is open to Parliament to take a view on those matters—in the way that a view is normally taken, for example, on investigations undertaken through the committee structure—or otherwise. Obvi...
Joe Fagan Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
There is profound concern about the potential outcomes of the service delivery review, not least from the firefighters and their union. Given the gravity of the decisions that are about to be made, does the Government agree that there should be full parliamentary scrutiny and ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Neil Gray) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
I met the SFRS board chair on 4 June, when we discussed the overall objectives of the service delivery review and the consultation and outreach process that the SFRS has undertaken. Recent large fires in Glasgow and Fife have been dealt with commendably by our front-line firef...
Joe Fagan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)
To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service board regarding the outcome of the service delivery review that is due to be considered on 22 June. (S7O-00022)
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am happy to answer.If Mr Cole-Hamilton wishes to write to me, I will write back to him as swiftly as I possibly can.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That was not quite on the nose for the general question, but do you want to respond, cabinet secretary?
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh North Western) (LD) LD Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I hope that the cabinet secretary will agree that one of the safest ways to get students from Kirkliston in my constituency to their catchment high school in South Queensferry is via the council-funded coach service that has been operating well there for several years. A decis...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I realise that everyone is finding their feet, including me. I remind members that they should only press their button if they want to ask a supplementary to the general question that has been asked.Alex Cole-Hamilton has a supplementary.
Lloyd Melville (Angus South) (SNP) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
My apologies, Presiding Officer. I pressed my button in error, thinking that I would have to do that for my general question later on.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Lloyd Melville has a supplementary.
Julie MacDougall Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I apologise.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
That is not relevant to this question. We are on supplementaries to the question that Patrick Harvie asked.
Julie MacDougall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I recently met the chief executive of Forth Valley College. It was incredibly harrowing to hear about how apprenticeship courses are being cut—
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Julie MacDougall has a supplementary.
Stephen Flynn SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
Mr Harvie will be pleased to know that £3.2 million is still going to regional transport partnerships—£1.6 million will be available for local direct awards and £1.4 million is going to bikeability schemes, which all our weans can benefit from. Of course, that forms part of a ...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I am sorry that the cabinet secretary did not choose to answer that question by explaining why the cut took place and why it took place during the election purdah period. I have returned to my job to meet local community organisations that are doing the work that the Scottish ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport (Stephen Flynn) SNP Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
I thank Patrick Harvie for his question, because it gives me the opportunity to restate what the First Minister said. We support cycling, walking and wheeling, which is why £226 million-worth of investment is going into sustainable and active travel. I am very proud of that—I ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
09 Jun 2026
General Question Time · Active Travel (Funding)
To ask the Scottish Government, in light of comments made by the First Minister in the Parliament on 2 June that the Scottish Government prioritises active and safe travel routes and the encouragement of cycling, walking and wheeling, for what reason Transport Scotland reporte...
Stephen Kerr Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Thank you.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Yes.
Stephen Kerr (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. For guidance, would it be possible for the same person to be nominated again in those circumstances?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
The process is opened again for further nominations. However, to be clear, any other member who is nominated will have to come from the party from which the original member was selected.
Helen McDade Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
What happens then?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
If a candidate receives the majority of votes, that candidate will become the committee convener. If the majority is against it, that candidate will not be the committee convener.
Helen McDade (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Reform) Reform Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I just wonder what the process is. Can you explain what happens once a vote has been cast when there is only one candidate, so that we know what we are voting against?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Willie Rennie’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Fifteen out of 15 convenerships will be subject to secret ballots.I have also received two valid nominations for convener of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. The nomin...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Craig Hoy’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Willie Rennie has been nominated as convener of the Transport Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was received.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Mark Ruskell’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Craig Hoy has been nominated as convener of the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button n...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Bob Doris’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Mark Ruskell has been nominated as convener of the Rural Affairs Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Paul Sweeney’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Bob Doris has been nominated as convener of the Public Service Reform Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Neil Bibby’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Paul Sweeney has been nominated as convener of the Public Petitions Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
09 Jun 2026
Committee Conveners
Helen McDade’s election as convener will be subject to election by secret ballot.Neil Bibby has been nominated as convener of the Public Audit Committee. If any member objects to his election as convener, please press your point-of-order button now.An objection was noted.
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Committee

Audit Committee, 06 Feb 2008

06 Feb 2008 · S3 · Audit Committee
Item of business
“A review of free personal and nursing care”
Mr Robert Black (Auditor General for Scotland): Watch on SPTV
As I am sure members of the committee are aware, our report on free personal and nursing care was published at the end of last week, on 1 February. It is a joint report with the Accounts Commission, in recognition of the key role of local government in implementing the policy.In effect, the report is a post-legislative review of the implementation of a major policy that has been put in place since devolution. To be frank, it contains some quite challenging findings. However, in bringing the report to you, I am the first to acknowledge that we in Audit Scotland have had the benefit of hindsight to inform our analysis. Free personal and nursing care has been and is an important policy for the people of Scotland. As I shall outline, it has in some ways been successful.Just as our work was beginning, the Scottish Government announced a review of the policy by Lord Sutherland. We have worked closely with Lord Sutherland's team to avoid duplication and have done our best to provide information that will be useful to that team in its work. The Audit Scotland team worked exceptionally hard to produce a complex report much earlier than was originally planned, so that we could inform Lord Sutherland's review. I am most grateful to the team for its efforts, which have allowed me to bring the report to the committee so early.I will touch on the background to the policy, which is well known to the committee. Free personal and nursing care was implemented in Scotland in July 2002, through the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Act 2002. Under that act, the Scottish Executive provided councils with additional funding to support the removal of charging for nursing care services that are provided in care homes and personal care services for older people that are provided both in care homes and in people's own homes. In the report, we examine the robustness of the financial planning, monitoring and reporting arrangements; the costs and funding allocations to councils; the financial impact of the policy on older people; and the financial implications for councils and the Government.I will mention a few key points in the report relating to legislation and guidance. The Scottish ministers decided to introduce free personal and nursing care early in 2001. That set the Scottish Executive a challenging timescale—only 18 months—to develop the policy. The deadline was met. A care development group that was established to inform policy decisions carried out detailed work on financial and other implications of the policy, also to extremely tight deadlines. Legislation was enacted in 2002 and the Executive then gave guidance to councils. All councils successfully put in place processes to implement and deliver free personal and nursing care from 1 July 2002. That was a significant achievement, given the tight deadlines.Other significant developments in health and social care were taking place at the time, so it is difficult to evaluate the impact of the free personal and nursing care policy in isolation from other changes. Those developments included a general shift in the balance of care from residential to home settings; increasing support for vulnerable people; improvements in joint working between health bodies and councils; and improvements in care standards, through the establishment of the Scottish Commission for the Regulation of Care.The overall aim of the free personal and nursing care policy was clear: to make personal and nursing care free of charge to all older people who were assessed as needing it, in line with free health services. However, the anticipated outcomes were never stated explicitly. For example, there was no description of whether or how free personal care might improve the quality of life of older people. That makes it difficult to evaluate the success of the policy, other than in terms of the financial benefits to some groups of the elderly. Because the legislation established no quality standards, the report is mainly about the financial issues.There were ambiguities in the legislation and the guidance, which led to councils making different interpretations. As a result, we see variations across Scotland in how the policy has been implemented. There is also an inconsistency between the legislation that the Parliament enacted and the guidance that the Scottish Executive produced on charging for food preparation. Those uncertainties have caused some councils to seek legal advice to clarify their obligations, and it seems that, in some cases, older people are unclear about what free personal care means in practice. I turn now to the costing of the policy. The financial memorandum to the Community Care and Health (Scotland) Act 2002 is reproduced as an appendix to my report. It did not set out a robust assessment of the financial implications and risks of introducing free personal and nursing care. It acknowledged that additional expenditure would be involved and a broad figure of £125 million per annum was given but, beyond that, the memorandum contained little financial detail. For example, there was not enough in the memorandum about the financial risks associated with the long-term projected growth in the older population and the effects of even small variations in unit costs on the total cost of the policy. Those risks were recognised by the care development group and commented on at the time by the Parliament's Health and Community Care Committee.I acknowledge that the initial cost estimates for the policy, which were based on the care development group's work, were difficult to make because of the tight timescales and the limited information that was available at the time, particularly regarding the cost of personal care delivered at home. Those limitations were acknowledged at the time, but I have to report that, five years on, many remain unresolved. Central Government has not updated the longer-term cost projections since 2001, although it has carried out short-term projections to support the annual allocations to councils. There is clearly potential for significant increases in demand in future. Numbers in the 75-plus age group are projected to increase by more than 80 per cent by 2030. In my opinion, longer-term cost projections are needed urgently. They should be based on the most recent population projections, together with a detailed analysis of the population's characteristics and, in the light of experience, robust costings of the different types of care packages that are appropriate for the different care settings at home and in residential care.There has been limited monitoring of the policy's cost. The Audit Committee reported its concerns on that back in 2005. The funding that was provided to cover the additional costs was not ring fenced. Although councils have been required to complete financial returns detailing their additional expenditure on free personal and nursing care, Audit Scotland found that the information was unreliable, so it reviewed the cost data to collect more consistent information from all councils. The Audit Scotland team went back to every council to ensure that accounting standards had been applied so that information was collected consistently—for example, to ensure that overheads had been included and any obvious errors, of which there were quite a number, were corrected. From that work, we estimate that the total cost of free personal and nursing care in the policy's first four years was about £1.8 billion. We also estimate that councils would have spent about £1.2 billion of that even if the policy had not been introduced, because older people previously were means tested for free care. Those are only our estimates; they are not absolute figures.We compared the policy's additional costs with the funding that the Scottish Executive provided for the first four years. The report indicates that there was probably a growing shortfall in central funding over those four years—I use the word "probably" because we are not operating with perfectly robust data. Working with the revised data from councils, Audit Scotland estimates that the annual shortfall could be between about £46 million and £63 million, depending on the assumptions used, although we are pretty confident that it is somewhere in that area. That is explained more fully in the main report in exhibits 9a and 9b on pages 26 and 27. The Audit Scotland team can help committee members to understand those numbers more fully if that would be helpful.As I mentioned a few moments ago, it is likely that demand for free personal and nursing care will continue to grow significantly with the projected increase in the older population. In all probability, that will have significant implications for the future costs of the policy.I turn to the financial impact on councils. Few councils have set specific budgets for the discrete elements of free personal and nursing care, and the Government has not required councils to do so, which makes it difficult to track the additional and total costs of the policy. Although we estimate that there has been a shortfall in funding for free personal and nursing care, it is significant that 27 councils spent less than their indicative funding allocations for older people's services in 2005-06.There is evidence that, to manage costs, some councils have been tightening their eligibility criteria and using waiting lists. Some 23 councils have developed eligibility criteria or priority levels for their care services to enable them to manage demand. There is significant variation in how priority levels are defined or applied in Scotland, and those differences in criteria have not been transparent to older people and the public, according to the focus groups and the soundings that we have taken. In 2006-07, 18 councils reported that people were waiting for home care services and 12 councils reported that people were waiting for a place in a care home. As I mentioned briefly, there is a particular lack of clarity about charges for food preparation. Eight councils charge for some aspects of assistance with food preparation and a further 11 have charged at some time but have now stopped.Continuing with the theme of the financial impact, I turn to the financial impact on older people. The policy has made a difference to the disposable income of some older people who, without it, would have paid for their own care. However, as we say in the report, it is not apparent that the policy has made a difference to older people on lower incomes who would have received free personal and nursing care services in any case under the old policy.On pages 44 to 49, we attempt to give worked examples of how various factors affect the financial circumstances of older people who live at home or in care homes. It is worth while noting—as we do in exhibit 19 on page 47—that for older people who live in care homes and benefit financially from the policy, the financial difference that it makes is reducing each year because of higher charges and the lack, in the past, of inflationary increases in payments.As I mentioned, the Government has not made a statement on how the policy contributes to the quality of care. More complex care packages are being put in place for older people who live at home and have complex needs, which should enable them to stay at home for longer. However, the provision of domestic home care services such as household cleaning and shopping is being reduced for many older people who live at home, partly as a result of councils prioritising personal care. That started to happen before the policy of free personal and nursing care was introduced, but, as can be seen in exhibit 21 on page 52, the statistics show that there is a continuing reduction in the provision of domestic home care services.In conclusion, I encourage the Scottish Government and councils to take action to address the ambiguities around the free personal and nursing care policy and to agree a national eligibility framework so that there is transparency about what is available under the policy, and so that the public can understand what the policy is doing. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, more work is needed soon to develop long-term cost projections. Finally, I encourage the Scottish Government to consider carefully how to monitor the performance of the free personal and nursing care policy and how to report to Parliament on the expenditure on this major policy initiative and the results that are delivered.As ever, my colleagues from Audit Scotland and I are happy to answer any questions, particularly in relation to the technical analysis—I look to the Audit Scotland team to help your understanding of that.

In the same item of business

The Convener: Lab
The next item is a briefing from the Auditor General for Scotland on his report entitled "A review of free personal and nursing care".
Mr Robert Black (Auditor General for Scotland):
As I am sure members of the committee are aware, our report on free personal and nursing care was published at the end of last week, on 1 February. It is a j...
The Convener: Lab
Thank you, Mr Black. The report and your comments this morning make a powerful contribution to what is probably one of the most significant debates facing th...
Mr Black:
In relation to free personal care in particular, in the short term—I am thinking about the period since the policy was introduced—it is reasonable to conclud...
Murdo Fraser: Con
The report is important and helpful. Free personal care was a flagship policy of the previous Executive, but it was supported by all the parties—there are no...
The Convener: Lab
Just before you answer that, to be fair, Murdo, like your earlier comments, that challenge should apply not just to the Government but to the Parliament. We ...
Mr Black:
I am not really in a position to answer the first part of the question. On the second part, I strongly encourage the Government to examine the long-term fina...
Murdo Fraser: Con
Is Lord Sutherland examining long-term costs? Has he engaged with Audit Scotland on that aspect?
Mr Black:
He is certainly examining the financial implications, but in a wider context than free personal care. He is attempting to locate the free personal and nursin...
Willie Coffey: SNP
Your report mentions that 27 councils are spending less on older people's services in general. That implies that they are spending more on free personal care...
Mr Black:
When we last reported on this issue to the previous Audit Committee a couple of years ago, it expressed concern that many councils relied disproportionately ...
Willie Coffey: SNP
The implication of what you say is concerning. Could it be that the local authorities do not know how much they are spending on this type of care?
Mr Black:
There is a doubt about the hard auditable numbers.
Andrew Welsh: SNP
Once again, Audit Scotland has performed a great service in shedding light on this important issue. It is a salutary lesson to all political decision-makers,...
George Foulkes: Lab
What is the balance between the number of people who are receiving free personal care in their homes and those who are receiving it in institutions? I do not...
Mr Black:
You are right, Lord Foulkes; the information is in exhibit 1. The numbers in the text just above the exhibit give the basic figures.
George Foulkes: Lab
So, according to those figures, the number of people who receive free personal care at home has gone up from 27,337 to 41,386, and the number of people who r...
Mr Black:
The latter two figures refer to the numbers of people who are fully publicly funded. The figures above that bullet point, on page 6 of the report, refer to t...
George Foulkes: Lab
That number has increased.
Mr Black:
It has gone up.
George Foulkes: Lab
Right. It was never part of your remit to consider the quality of care in some of the private care homes—that is a separate issue.
Mr Black:
Absolutely. There are two issues there. First, as I indicated in my opening remarks, the policy has never been stated in terms of what it was designed to do ...
George Foulkes: Lab
The summary at the beginning of the report says:"The UK government and the Welsh Assembly decided to implement free nursing care only in England and Wales on...
Barbara Hurst (Audit Scotland):
The Government in England has not implemented—
George Foulkes: Lab
Personal care?
Barbara Hurst:
Yes.
George Foulkes: Lab
Right. I have it.
Barbara Hurst:
Free personal care has not been implemented in England and Wales because of the affordability issue. I understand that Wales looked into it and, although it ...
George Foulkes: Lab
Is there any indication why there is not a huge demand for free personal care in England or Wales?
Barbara Hurst:
It is such a complex area of interrelated services that it is difficult to isolate views about one element of a care package. It could be that what we need t...