Committee
Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee 21 March 2018
21 Mar 2018 · S5 · Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee
Item of business
Islands (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
In 1930, Hirta, which was the only inhabited part of the St Kilda group, was actually part of Inverness-shire rather than the Western Isles—but that is history and does not matter. Amendment 10, in Liam McArthur’s name, captures something quite important. However, if we agree to it now, we may want to revisit the wording a little bit. I am not concerned about its use of the word “may”; my specific issue is the mention of “uninhabited islands ... and associated ecosystems” that “contribute to the ... economy of an inhabited island”. If I wished to, I could make the argument that Australia or an uninhabited island off the coast of Australia, by virtue of climate change, contributes “to the natural or cultural heritage or economy of an inhabited island” in Scotland. I do not think that we are trying to capture that situation in the legislation. I am content with the generality of where the amendment is trying to take us, but we might have to look at whether that is what we mean—I do not think it is—and perhaps tweak the amendment at stage 3 if Liam McArthur successfully persuades the committee now or brings it back in modified form. That is a matter for him. Turning to John Mason’s plethora of amendments, all of which address exactly the same point, I have a very simple issue with what he is trying to do with the words that he uses. I do not know what an “outcome” for an island is—I just do not know what that means. I know what an outcome for people on an island can mean, but an island has no personality in a legal sense, so I just do not know what that means. If we include that wording, there is a danger that we dilute our focus on island communities in section 3(2) et alia. We are legislating to make the lives of the people who live on islands better. That is the core purpose of the bill. We have just discussed an amendment—although we have not agreed to it—that would insert a section entitled “Purpose of Act” and that properly refers to “island communities”.
In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Item 2 is stage 2 consideration of the Islands (Scotland) Bill. I welcome back the Minister for Transport and the Islands, Humza Yousaf, and his officials fr...
The Convener
Con
The first group is entitled “Purpose of Act”. Amendment 28, in the name of Colin Smyth, is the only amendment in the group.
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I am conscious that we have a number of amendments to get through today, so I will keep my comments relatively brief. As members will know, a purpose clause ...
John Mason
SNP
As I said in the chamber yesterday, I am in favour of purpose clauses. I would like the Government and anyone else who intends to introduce a bill to start w...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I understand and have sympathy with what Colin Smyth is trying to do, but his amendment risks diluting the bill’s ambition. All it talks about is creating “s...
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am minded not to support amendment 28. Although we discussed the matter at stage 1 and thought that such a provision might be necessary, I do not feel that...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
The Scotland Act 1998 says: “There shall be a Scottish Parliament.” As Donald Dewar said, “I like that.” It is really important to set out the purpose of a...
John Finnie
Green
I am supportive of Colin Smyth’s amendment 28. Although I suspect that you would not want us to do this, convener, we could spend all day discussing every wo...
Jamie Greene
Con
I strongly feel that the bill should have an objective, given the evidence that we have heard and after speaking to islanders at many of the focus groups. Th...
Humza Yousaf
SNP
I will speak to a number of amendments on which, where we, as a Government, can be helpful and reflect, we will, because we want to progress the bill in the ...
Jamie Greene
Con
Before we move to a vote, I want to clarify the minister’s position on that. Minister, are you saying that, at stage 3, you would not consider including a pu...
Humza Yousaf
SNP
I will come back to that, as I am just coming to that very point. I have a problem with putting the purpose on the face of the bill, but I think that we can ...
The Convener
Con
Thank you, minister. I ask Colin Smyth to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 28.
Colin Smyth
Lab
I agree with John Mason’s point that a purpose clause should be introduced at as early a stage as possible. I had no control over the wording of the draft bi...
The Convener
Con
Amendment 10, in the name of Liam McArthur, is grouped with amendments 30, 41, 44, 60, 63, 66 to 68, 72, 74 to 77 and 88.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I welcome the work of the committee on the bill, and I thank the convener and other committee members for taking the time to come up to Orkney to hear direct...
John Mason
SNP
Some of my thinking is in line with what Liam McArthur has just said. The amendments are part of a package, so they all do the same thing. For example, secti...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
In 1930, Hirta, which was the only inhabited part of the St Kilda group, was actually part of Inverness-shire rather than the Western Isles—but that is histo...
John Mason
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Yes, he will.
John Mason
SNP
Does he accept that, for an uninhabited island, having a community on it would be a positive outcome?
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Yes, but I am not sure that that would be an outcome for the island; it would be an outcome for the community on the island. I am conflicted on the matter, ...
Peter Chapman
Con
I agree with amendment 10, as I think that it is important that uninhabited islands are referred to in the key definitions of the bill. Sections 1 and 2 r...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I support amendment 10. I ask John Mason not to move his amendments in the group and to discuss the issue with the minister. I do not doubt John Mason’s ent...
John Mason
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Lyle
SNP
I have finished. Laughter.
John Finnie
Green
I support Liam McArthur’s amendment 10, and I support John Mason’s amendments. We can dance around, and I appreciate that lawyers will forever chew over the ...
Humza Yousaf
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak to this group of amendments on uninhabited islands, which I appreciate is an issue of significance for many. The bill’s fo...
John Mason
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Humza Yousaf
SNP
Of course.