Committee
Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee 21 November 2017
21 Nov 2017 · S5 · Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee
Item of business
Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
That is not our view. The amendments were drafted to try to ensure that we do not capture the wrong things or exclude other things. The new drafting tightens up the bill and ensures that parallel transportation does not get caught in a situation in which we are talking about a travelling circus. It should be remembered that this is about committing offences. The clarity makes the issue a lot more straightforward in considering any offence.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Agenda item 8 is consideration of the Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. I again welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, ...
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
SNP
Convener, before we move on, can I refer members to my entry in the register of interests? I am the convener of the cross-party group on the Scottish Showmen...
The Convener
SNP
It was remiss of me not to give you that opportunity. Does any other member have interests to declare?
John Scott
Con
I should declare an interest as an honorary member of the British Veterinary Association.
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Green
I should also declare an interest as an honorary member of the BVA. Section 1—Wild animals in travelling circuses: offence
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 4, in the name of David Stewart, is in a group on its own.
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
The bill’s long title states that it is “An Act of the Scottish Parliament to make it an offence to use wild animals in travelling circuses”, and the expla...
John Scott
Con
I support what Mr Stewart has said. It is a reasonable amendment, which we should consider.
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I thank David Stewart for lodging his amendment, the effect of which would be to make it clearer that a circus operator who uses a wild animal in a travellin...
David Stewart
Lab
I appreciate the support of members and the cabinet secretary. Amendment 4 agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 5, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 6 and 7.
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I will outline the thinking behind amendments 5 to 7. The committee’s stage 1 report raised concerns regarding the effectiveness of section 1 in introducing ...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Can the cabinet secretary confirm that, in changing the wording from “a travelling circus” to “the travelling circus”—from a generality to specificity—that d...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
That is not our view. The amendments were drafted to try to ensure that we do not capture the wrong things or exclude other things. The new drafting tightens...
The Convener
SNP
As no other member wishes to contribute, does the cabinet secretary wish to wind up?
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
There is not anything extra that I need to add. I simply reiterate that the amendments are to tighten up the bill so that the nature of the offence becomes e...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of John Scott, is grouped with amendments 14 to 16, 2, 17, 18, 3, 20 and 12. 11:15
John Scott
Con
Amendments 1 and 2 seek to create a list of wild animals that are not to be used in travelling circuses. Amendment 1 details where lists of such wild animals...
Mark Ruskell
Green
We have a definition of domestication in the bill. However, at the end of stage 1, we came to the conclusion that there were problems with it: that it was in...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I will come to amendment 12 after I have spoken to the other amendments in the group. That would make more logical sense. This debate is about the committee...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
I have come to this matter quite late, but I have had an intensive weekend of study on it. The cabinet secretary has slightly pre-empted me in that I have id...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
And, indeed, there are wallabies.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
The cabinet secretary says wallabies—my experience is comprehensive, but not total. I have not yet met any wallabies. One could even consider rabbits, which...
Richard Lyle
SNP
I agree with the comments that Stewart Stevenson just made, and also with what the cabinet secretary said. I can see where Mark Ruskell and John Scott are co...
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I find this issue quite complicated, if I am open about it. Lists often have their dangers and, although I was keen to support the possibility of a list of w...
Mark Ruskell
Green
I listened carefully to what the cabinet secretary said. I would like clarification over amendment 12, because it enables ministers to make a regulation abou...
Roseanna Cunningham
SNP
I think that there is a slight misunderstanding here. Most of us will agree on pretty much all the animals that are domesticated and all those that are wild;...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
It strikes me that paragraph (a) of subsection (2) of the proposed new section in amendment 12 makes it very clear that the generality of the phrase “commonl...
The Convener
SNP
It is worth nothing that the amendments lodged by John Scott and Mark Ruskell are constructive and well intentioned in what they set out to achieve but, as w...
John Scott
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for her explanation of the apparent weaknesses of my three amendments, which I think has convinced me of the dangers of seeking...