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Showing 60 of 2,096,445 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,975. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 11 Jun 2026.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:18
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.17:31The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00346, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee membership, be agreed to.Motion agreed to,That the Parliament agrees the membership of committees of the Parliament as follows—Climate Action Committ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, is: For 67, Against 25, Abstentions 26.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament welcomes that the...
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry—I could not connect to the voting app. I would have abstained.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The sixth question is, that motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, is: For 36, Against 67, Abstentions 16.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and Wes...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote will be recorded.
Duncan Dunlop (South Scotland) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I apologise—my vote was not recorded. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The fifth question is, that amendment S7M-00309.1, in the name of David Green, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 26, Against 91, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Briggs, Miles (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Con)Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Is...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.5, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, is: For 66, Against 27, Abstentions 26.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.2, in the name of Lorna Slater, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, is: For 17, Against 92, Abstentions 9.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForBannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bland, Amanda (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform)Currie, Victor (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Kerr, Thomas (Glasgow) (Reform)Kirkwood, David (South Scotland) (Reform)Langan, Jam...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Malcolm Offord is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser will fall.The next question is, that amendment S7M-00309.4, in the name of Malcolm Offord, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan M...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, is: For 94, Against 15, Abstentions 9.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Baillie, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Okay, thank you.
Lorna Slater (Edinburgh Central) (Green) Green Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
My apologies, Presiding Officer. That was left over from when the app was not working.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their vote now.The vote is closed.We have a point of order from Lorna Slater.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:18Meeting suspended.17:21On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S7M-00309.3, in the name of Michael Marra, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00309, in the name of Ivan McKee, on public service reform and empowering staff, service users ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The question on the motion will be put at decision time.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I hate to disappoint Ivan McKee, but his speech was not the last speech before the world cup. I will also undoubtedly disappoint other members given that we are looking to get out, but I will not take too long.Members will be aware that standing orders require the Parliamentar...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
Go on—why not?
The Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans (Jamie Hepburn) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
I will move and speak to the motion, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Parliamentary Bureau Motion
The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-00346, on committee membership. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion.17:16
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
That concludes the debate on public service reform and empowering staff, service users and local communities.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does Mr Kerr want to intervene? I will get the time back, so I am happy to take his point. No, he does not. Okay.We have already saved more than £50 million on estates. I thought that it was 12, but we have now, in fact, shut 13 Scottish Government buildings. Murdo Fraser has ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Mr Kerr, you know to try to intervene rather than to attack from a sedentary position.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I think that the confusion is more broad. The Reform manifesto talks about getting rid of all 130 public bodies—or “quangos”, as they call them. However, there is also a recognition from across the Reform benches that those public bodies—whether Police Scotland, the court syst...
Victor Currie (Highlands and Islands) (Reform) Reform Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Does the cabinet secretary recall that Max Bannerman’s point on community wind farms was that they do not rely on subsidies? Therefore, it forms no contradiction in Reform policy on our opposition to net zero.
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Yes. David Barratt also draws out the important point that the inconsistency in the Reform position is quite apparent. Reform members say in their amendment that we should not be talking about this stuff, and then they go on to talk about it from very different and contradicto...
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
—renewable energy schemes and for community-owned wind. Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is not the kind of reform that we need?
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Hello. It is not a speech within a speech. It is an intervention.
David Barratt SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In moving the Reform amendment, Malcolm Offord stated that the Scottish Government should have no remit on net zero and energy, and he suggested cutting public bodies that are responsible for related areas. In contrast, Max Bannerman noted the value of community wind power in ...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I will take David Barratt’s intervention, and then I will go on to talk about those other contributions.
David Barratt (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
In principle, we need stability of funding and to recognise the great work that happens in community organisations, which I see every week in my constituency. That work is absolutely critical, because those organisations are, to a large extent, the front line, and their abilit...
Bob Doris SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I commend the comments on the third sector that we have heard in the chamber this afternoon. I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on funding of the third and voluntary sectors, and I highlight the longer-term fun...
Ivan McKee SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
On reflection, I am happy with the extent of the contributions that we have heard this afternoon. As I indicated at the outset, I was keen to hear from members, and that is what has happened for the most part. I will try to pick my way through the mind map that I have in front...
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
Before I call the cabinet secretary, I say to members that, if they seek to make an intervention, they should remember to stand up and ask to make an intervention. I notice that buttons are pressed but, sometimes, the speakers do not see who is trying to intervene.17:05
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
We move to the open debate.15:58
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I congratulate Ivan McKee—I will call him super Ivan, given the scale of his task, based on his speech and the vision that he has set out today.From listening to colleagues from across the chamber, I am struck that there is a lot of common ground here, and I think that we need...
David Green (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (LD) LD Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I begin by welcoming the cabinet secretary to his new role and wishing him well. As we have already heard, Mr McKee has been handed what might become the defining task of this Government, which is tackling the £5 billion black hole in Scotland’s finances. As Murdo Fraser has j...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Clare Adamson) SNP Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I call Murdo Fraser, who joins us online.15:47
Michael Marra Lab Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I point gently to the fact that Alyn Smith’s party had an outright majority in the Parliament for one of those parliamentary sessions, so not having had the numbers is not a foolproof excuse.Alyn Smith will find common ground across different areas. My note of caution to him w...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con Chamber
11 Jun 2026
Public Service Reform (Staff, Service Users and Local Communities)
I should explain that I am having to contribute remotely today due to a family issue; otherwise, I would be in the chamber.I welcome Ivan McKee to his new role as Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform. I know that he is keen to dispel the notion that he is here as an axe...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2017

03 Oct 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Universal Credit (Roll-out)
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

When the Parliament last debated universal credit, a few weeks ago, I said that I would welcome a Government debate on the issue, so I am glad to be speaking in this debate to move Labour’s amendment and support the Government motion.

Where we can work together as a Parliament, we should do so. I am glad that the majority of parties in the Parliament are working together in their efforts to stop the roll-out of universal credit, which is having such a negative impact on the health and wellbeing of so many people in Scotland.

I acknowledge Citizens Advice Scotland’s work to highlight the major flaws and to build the campaign to stop the roll-out. The campaign is supported by 24 Scottish charities, including Shelter Scotland, Oxfam Scotland, Children in Scotland, the Poverty Alliance, the Coalition of Carers in Scotland, Enable Scotland and the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations. Given that we can add to that list the churches, the trade unions and the many other organisations that are getting in touch with members of the Scottish Parliament, it is fair to say that Scottish civic society—indeed, the majority of Scotland—is calling on the Westminster Government to stop the roll-out of universal credit and sort out the problems.

The debate is timely, because we have seen updates on the issue from the Tory party conference this week and increased coverage in the news as the full extent of the problems becomes even more evident—evident to all, it seems, apart from the Tories. The work and pensions secretary intervened this week to announce that people who are claiming universal credit and are struggling to pay their bills will now be able to get a cash advance up front on the day that they claim. However, that is not a solution to the problems inherent in the structural set-up of universal credit; it is a sticking-plaster solution that tries to hide the problems that have been occurring across the roll-out areas up and down our country. Across the pilot areas, we have seen a large rise in rent arrears, an almost doubling of crisis grants and massive increases in the need to depend on charity for that most basic necessity: the ability to feed ourselves and our families. How on earth can that be ignored? It cannot.

By making that latest commitment, the work and pensions secretary clearly recognises that there is a problem with the six-week period for payment. Yet, instead of calling a halt to the accelerated roll-out, he is committed to carrying on regardless. He is ignoring calls from civic organisations across the country, Opposition politicians and even a number of Tory MPs who have added their names to the list of those who are calling for a halt to the roll-out.

When we debated the issue last, I asked:

“Why would any Government in a civilised society continue to roll out a new policy that it knows is going to hurt tens of thousands of people, will drive people into debt and towards relying on charity to feed themselves, and will result in even more people in our country being driven into poverty?”—[Official Report, 7 September 2017; c 28.]

I ask the same question today. This Tory Government has shown complete contempt for some of the most vulnerable in our society and seems willing to push ahead with no regard for the misery that it is going to inflict.

I remind the chamber that, during the summer, I wrote to every MP in the UK, asking them to support a call to halt the roll-out of universal credit. I wrote to the work and pensions secretary, who, in fairness, got back to me in reply. However, his defence of the roll-out stated that the evidence from Citizens Advice Scotland was

“based on evidence from a self-selecting group of people”.

I take it that he meant the very people who have experienced being part of the roll-out.

I also wrote to the leader of the Scottish Tories, Ruth Davidson, but have had no response to date. The Tories here in Scotland seem to want to bury their heads in the sand. Do they really not care about what is happening to those who are suffering under the policy as it is rolled out across Scotland? We see another weak-willed defence of the roll-out from the Scottish Tories today.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08035, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the roll-out of universal credit. I call Jeane Freeman to speak t...
The Minister for Social Security (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I have brought the motion to the chamber today to allow the Scottish Parliament to make clear its position on universal credit and to give Parliament the opp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does the minister welcome the statement made at the Conservative Party conference yesterday that the wait will be a maximum of five days? Will she welcome th...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Actually, what was mentioned at the Conservative Party conference—believe me, I will get to it—was what we already have. The only new thing that was said was...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
In the words of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the current system, which universal credit is replacing, is “fragmented and traps people in poverty.” If un...
Jeane Freeman SNP
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which I know Mr Tomkins is very fond of quoting, called on the Conservatives to reverse the two-child limit. Originally, the ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, “Universal Credit ... remains the right thing to do. The current system is fragmented and traps people in poverty. The prospect of an int...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In East Lothian, prior to the roll-out of universal credit, rent arrears had fallen by 20 per cent; on its introduction, rent arrears increased by 20 per cen...
Adam Tomkins Con
The DWP addressed the detail of that point in its responses to the Social Security Community. There was a particular problem in East Lothian, which was one o...
Maree Todd (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins Con
No. On 14 March, the responsible minister, Damian Hinds MP, wrote to the Social Security Committee. He said: “I accept there are cases where claimants wait...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins Con
I will if I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time for interventions for everyone in this debate.
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Tomkins accept that the DWP’s information that was released this year shows that one in four new UC claimants waits longer than six weeks, half of cl...
Adam Tomkins Con
That was more a speech than an intervention. The answer is straightforward. There is an interest-free loan, which needs to be paid back over a six-month per...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When the Parliament last debated universal credit, a few weeks ago, I said that I would welcome a Government debate on the issue, so I am glad to be speaking...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the member agree that the best way out of poverty is to work and that people who claim universal credit are 13 per cent more likely to be in work than p...
Alex Rowley Lab
Skills opportunities and employment are, for me, the best way out of poverty—I do not disagree with that. However, we need to provide support. It is clear th...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
This is the second time in less than a month that the Parliament has debated the roll-out of universal credit. That is a clear reflection of the extraordinar...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am very grateful to the member for taking an intervention. One of the recent changes to universal credit has been the change in the taper rate from 65 per ...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes, I agree, but that amounted to £0.7 billion, compared with an initial £3 billion cut. Research by the OBR shows that, by 2020, universal credit will tak...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I welcome the Scottish Government’s motion and the opportunity that it affords the chamber to call a halt to the botched accelerated roll-out of universal cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 16:08
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
It is important to remind members, particularly the Tories, that today we are discussing human beings and their situation; we are discussing not statistics, ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the amendment in my colleague Adam Tomkins’s name and I fully support it. I suspect that there will not be a lot of consensus from other parties ab...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
Not at the moment. I will make some progress first, if that is okay. We have heard much about the great old system that we all loved so much—six forms, six ...
Sandra White SNP
Will the member give way?