Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 April 2017
25 Apr 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Child Tax Credit Cuts
I accept that, for many MSPs, the change is far from welcome. These are difficult judgment calls. When, in 2015, the UK Government initially proposed cutting tax credits, I spoke out against it. I did not think that ministers had got the balance right. Those measures were scrapped.
However, the two-child tax limit was not something that I spoke out against. Indeed, nor did others. I recall the then interim leader of the Labour Party, Harriet Harman, also making it clear that she felt that it was something that should be considered. She said:
“We’re not going to be voting against the Welfare Bill, we’re not going to be opposing the Household Benefit cap, we’re going to be understanding the point about more than three children”.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-05282, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on child tax credit cuts. I call the First Minister to speak to an...
The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
Last Thursday, together with Kezia Dugdale, Willie Rennie, Patrick Harvie and many MSPs from across the chamber, I attended the demonstration against the rap...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Is the First Minister surprised to learn that this is, in fact, the second time that the Conservatives have sought to introduce this policy, after they were ...
The First Minister
SNP
No, I am not surprised to hear that, because I know that. While I oppose many of the benefit cuts, I think that this one—particularly the rape clause that fl...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call on Ruth Davidson to speak to and move the amendment in her name. 14:32
Ruth Davidson (Edinburgh Central) (Con)
Con
First, let me say that I welcome this debate today, not because it is about an issue that is easy to discuss in public—something so appalling never is—but be...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson
Con
I am sorry, but I have a lot to get through and I will not be taking any interventions. Members: Oh!
Ruth Davidson
Con
I do not think that this issue should be subject to the knockabout that we see here in the chamber daily. Of course, there is a political judgment, which an...
Kezia Dugdale
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Ruth Davidson
Con
Inevitably, that means examining many budgets, including the welfare budget. It has meant, for example, removing child benefit from higher earners. The issue...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Davidson
Con
In other words, parents of three or more children who are currently claiming tax credits will still continue to do so.
Neil Findlay
Lab
Will you not defend your own policy?
Ruth Davidson
Con
I accept that, for many MSPs, the change is far from welcome. These are difficult judgment calls. When, in 2015, the UK Government initially proposed cutting...
The Minister for Childcare and Early Years (Mark McDonald)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson
Con
I agreed with her then, and I still do. The First Minister gave monetary examples, so let me put them in context. A one-parent family with two children wher...
Neil Findlay
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
Ruth Davidson
Con
It adds that “women are not placed in the position of having to give details about the rape to DWP or HMRC officials”.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I am sorry, Ms Davidson, but there is a point of order from Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay
Lab
Presiding Officer, I was under the impression that this was a debating chamber. Is it not appalling that the leader of the Opposition in the Parliament is un...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
That is not a point of order. All members know that it is entirely at their own discretion whether to take an intervention or not.
Ruth Davidson
Con
There is absolutely no requirement to report rape as a crime, to provide proof of rape or to provide proof of conviction. A woman writes her name and a third...
The First Minister
SNP
Will Ruth Davidson take an intervention?
Ruth Davidson
Con
That third-party model already exists in the benefit system to support victims of domestic violence. Members: Give way—go on.
Ruth Davidson
Con
The third-party professionals— Members: Give way!
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order. The member is not taking an intervention.
Ruth Davidson
Con
It is important that we do not wilfully misrepresent the process, causing fear and alarm. Let me outline the process to members again. The woman writes her n...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
There is another point of order.