Committee
Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Oct 2003
07 Oct 2003 · S2 · Equal Opportunities Committee
Item of business
Discrimination
Professor Curtice:
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It all rests on statistical theory. Statisticians tell us that if we take a random sample of 1,000 people in a population, as long as we avoid the various pitfalls of bias—of which there are many—if an attitude exists in the population which would give the true value of a yes response 50 per cent of the time and a no response 50 per cent of the time, 95 per cent of the time we will get the answer right within 3 per cent. In other words, if we kept taking a sample of 1,000 people and conducting the survey properly, 95 per cent of the time between 47 and 53 per of the responses would be a yes response. That gives you an idea of the degree of robustness of any of this kind of research.Often, we are not interested in the attitudes of the whole of Scotland. We may be interested in the attitudes of men, women, ethnic minorities, and so on. As I have said, this survey is inadequate as a survey of ethnic minorities, as they are not sufficiently represented in it. We used a sample of 1,600 people rather than 1,000 people partly to try to ensure that we had at least reasonably large sub-groups for the more common groups in the population. That is also why we over-sampled rural parts of Scotland.One of the clear lessons that we have learned is that in Scotland there is a particular policy interest in considering the position of rural people. For example, this project was particularly concerned with finding out whether there might be greater evidence of discriminatory attitudes in respect of gay men and women in rural areas. For the most part, the research does not substantiate that. There are some signs of such discrimination, but there is not as much evidence of it as we expected. We deliberately over-sampled in that way to ensure that rural Scotland could be considered on its own. We would like always to include more people in surveys, as that would mean that the sub-groups would have more people in them.That gives you a partial answer to your second question. Certainly, in so far as measuring attitudes in Scotland in general is concerned, this is high-quality research that is conducted to pretty much the best standards that there are. I will give you an idea of the kind of efforts to which we go to ensure that. I do not mean to criticise what other organisations do—one gets what one pays for. Nonetheless, let us consider the opinion poll that was published in The Herald this morning, which was conducted by System 3. That is a standard, omnibus piece of survey research that was conducted over the course of a week. Inevitably, that kind of research is focused on those people whom one can manage to contact in the course of a week. The fieldwork for our survey started in June 2002 and continued through to October. We tried hard to get hold of somebody at all the selected addresses to ensure that the sample was as representative as possible. Even so, with the best will in the world, we can succeed in getting hold of only about 60 per cent of the people whom we would like to get hold of. We would like that figure to be higher.The survey is about as solid a piece of evidence on attitudes as we can get. However, every last figure should not be read as being exact. If I say that the figure is 37 per cent, it means that it is between 34 and 40 per cent, but we are definitely not talking about 60 per cent. The 37 per cent figure provides a baseline against which to measure future progress.On whether there are plans to repeat the survey, there are certainly no concrete plans to do so but, as the organisation that initiated the survey, we are keen to repeat it. Those with whom we dealt in the Executive are pleased with the research. I hope that we might be able to persuade them to repeat it in two or three years. If the committee were to suggest that that might be a good idea, it might give extra strength to our elbow.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
I warmly welcome Professor John Curtice from the National Centre for Social Research, who is here to talk about the centre's report on attitudes towards disc...
Professor John Curtice (National Centre for Social Research):
I offer apologies from my co-author, Catherine Bromley. We discovered that she had another engagement this morning, from which she could not free herself, in...
The Convener:
Lab
My colleagues, who are all female MSPs, would like to ask you some questions.
Professor Curtice:
I will not comment on whether that is evidence of discrimination.
Mrs Margaret Smith:
They have got me.Clearly, the survey was about attitudes. The results suggest that in respect of attitudes to discrimination against disabled people and to s...
Professor Curtice:
That is a good question. It may be true that women and disabled people are not necessarily subject to discriminatory attitudes, but that does not mean that t...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
In the past week or two, we have been discussing mainstreaming equalities quite a lot; in fact, we did that this morning in the context of our consideration ...
Professor Curtice:
If you are asking whether an implication of our research is that attention needs to be focused particularly on ethnic minorities and on gay men and lesbians,...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
The other aspect is that if you decide to change policy in order to change attitudes, you must have information about people's needs and wants and what they ...
Professor Curtice:
I do not want to deny the value of what you are saying, but I point out that what you suggest involves considering the question from the other side. Our rese...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
The results suggest that there is a hierarchy of discrimination with ethnic minorities and LGBT communities at the wrong end of that hierarchy. As that does ...
Professor Curtice:
Can you unpack what you mean?
Mrs Margaret Smith:
Much discrimination is against people from ethnic minorities, although for some time there have been statutory reasons why people should not discriminate aga...
Professor Curtice:
I will interrupt you there. You should be aware that the survey provides a snapshot—it does not show how attitudes have changed over time. It shows that disc...
Marlyn Glen:
Lab
The survey makes fascinating reading, and I am sure that there is a huge amount of follow-up work to do.Have you had any responses or feedback on the results...
Professor Curtice:
I am pleased to say that our relationships with the representatives of those groups are as good now as they were when they started the research. Laughter. Wh...
Shiona Baird:
Green
In your report you state that the questions do not cover bisexuals and the transgender community—that you limited your questions to cover gay men and lesbian...
Professor Curtice:
It depends what you think is the requirement in respect of knowledge. We felt that if we use the terms "gay men" or "lesbian" most people know what we are ta...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have a similar question about the term "disabled" and whether that was taken to apply only to wheelchair users. When you used the term, to what extent did ...
Professor Curtice:
You pick up an important point. For the most part we tried to ask questions using the generic term, but when it came to the question about a primary teacher ...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have two questions on women. The survey seems to suggest that people generally feel that women do not suffer a great deal of discrimination, but there is s...
Professor Curtice:
It is a mixed message, and I think that you understand perfectly.A small proportion of people now take the strong gender-stereotypical view that women should...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have one more question. Forty years ago, I was a feminist student fighting for women's rights. We have not come very far since then. The gap between men's ...
Professor Curtice:
I am not quite sure. You are right in a sense. Society is perhaps more sanguine about the position than it should be. The question that we asked people proba...
Mrs Milne:
Con
Good afternoon. I am not an academic. To a layperson, your sample of 1,600 people seems quite small in the context of the whole of Scotland. Perhaps you can ...
Professor Curtice:
It all rests on statistical theory. Statisticians tell us that if we take a random sample of 1,000 people in a population, as long as we avoid the various pi...
The Convener:
Lab
We will consider it.
Mrs Milne:
Con
The paper suggests that this is the first time that a public attitude survey on discrimination has been carried out on this scale. Are there similar studies ...
Professor Curtice:
Let me explain the basis of the paper's claim. We are not aware of a previous attempt to look across the range of groups. Previous research, including some w...
Mrs Milne:
Con
I have a final question. You have pulled together all the strands from the different equality groups. What key benefit can policy makers derive from the resu...