Committee
Equal Opportunities Committee, 07 Oct 2003
07 Oct 2003 · S2 · Equal Opportunities Committee
Item of business
Discrimination
Professor Curtice:
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If you are asking whether an implication of our research is that attention needs to be focused particularly on ethnic minorities and on gay men and lesbians, rather than on women and people with disabilities, the answer is that it is clear that that is a potential implication of the research as far as attitudes—though not necessarily discriminatory practices—are concerned.The material that I have presented today and some of the material that is buried deep in the report suggest not only that the incidence of discriminatory attitudes to ethnic minorities and to gay men and lesbians is higher, but that our questions, which were designed to tap discriminatory attitudes, did so in a much clearer way with those groups than they did with women and the disabled.Although it would undoubtedly be preferable if the attitudes in the answers to some of the questions that we asked about women and disabled people did not exist, those attitudes did not seem to be derived from a clear belief that certain kinds of prejudice were okay. They might have been derived from other things, such as a failure to appreciate that it might be possible for someone in a wheelchair to be an effective primary teacher, as it should be perfectly possible to organise a school to allow that to happen. It might be desirable to make people aware that it is possible for disabled people to achieve things, but that is rather different from saying that a perception exists that those people are different and should therefore be excluded.In other words, the report provides evidence that, with ethnic minorities and gay men and lesbians, we are looking at prejudice. We found people who said that those groups were different to them and that they should be treated differently. Although, as I have said, there is some evidence of gender stereotyping, it is more the case that, with women and disabled people, there are questions about the potential of the people in those groups and a failure to understand their potential.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Lab
I warmly welcome Professor John Curtice from the National Centre for Social Research, who is here to talk about the centre's report on attitudes towards disc...
Professor John Curtice (National Centre for Social Research):
I offer apologies from my co-author, Catherine Bromley. We discovered that she had another engagement this morning, from which she could not free herself, in...
The Convener:
Lab
My colleagues, who are all female MSPs, would like to ask you some questions.
Professor Curtice:
I will not comment on whether that is evidence of discrimination.
Mrs Margaret Smith:
They have got me.Clearly, the survey was about attitudes. The results suggest that in respect of attitudes to discrimination against disabled people and to s...
Professor Curtice:
That is a good question. It may be true that women and disabled people are not necessarily subject to discriminatory attitudes, but that does not mean that t...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
In the past week or two, we have been discussing mainstreaming equalities quite a lot; in fact, we did that this morning in the context of our consideration ...
Professor Curtice:
If you are asking whether an implication of our research is that attention needs to be focused particularly on ethnic minorities and on gay men and lesbians,...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
The other aspect is that if you decide to change policy in order to change attitudes, you must have information about people's needs and wants and what they ...
Professor Curtice:
I do not want to deny the value of what you are saying, but I point out that what you suggest involves considering the question from the other side. Our rese...
Mrs Margaret Smith:
The results suggest that there is a hierarchy of discrimination with ethnic minorities and LGBT communities at the wrong end of that hierarchy. As that does ...
Professor Curtice:
Can you unpack what you mean?
Mrs Margaret Smith:
Much discrimination is against people from ethnic minorities, although for some time there have been statutory reasons why people should not discriminate aga...
Professor Curtice:
I will interrupt you there. You should be aware that the survey provides a snapshot—it does not show how attitudes have changed over time. It shows that disc...
Marlyn Glen:
Lab
The survey makes fascinating reading, and I am sure that there is a huge amount of follow-up work to do.Have you had any responses or feedback on the results...
Professor Curtice:
I am pleased to say that our relationships with the representatives of those groups are as good now as they were when they started the research. Laughter. Wh...
Shiona Baird:
Green
In your report you state that the questions do not cover bisexuals and the transgender community—that you limited your questions to cover gay men and lesbian...
Professor Curtice:
It depends what you think is the requirement in respect of knowledge. We felt that if we use the terms "gay men" or "lesbian" most people know what we are ta...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have a similar question about the term "disabled" and whether that was taken to apply only to wheelchair users. When you used the term, to what extent did ...
Professor Curtice:
You pick up an important point. For the most part we tried to ask questions using the generic term, but when it came to the question about a primary teacher ...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have two questions on women. The survey seems to suggest that people generally feel that women do not suffer a great deal of discrimination, but there is s...
Professor Curtice:
It is a mixed message, and I think that you understand perfectly.A small proportion of people now take the strong gender-stereotypical view that women should...
Shiona Baird:
Green
I have one more question. Forty years ago, I was a feminist student fighting for women's rights. We have not come very far since then. The gap between men's ...
Professor Curtice:
I am not quite sure. You are right in a sense. Society is perhaps more sanguine about the position than it should be. The question that we asked people proba...
Mrs Milne:
Con
Good afternoon. I am not an academic. To a layperson, your sample of 1,600 people seems quite small in the context of the whole of Scotland. Perhaps you can ...
Professor Curtice:
It all rests on statistical theory. Statisticians tell us that if we take a random sample of 1,000 people in a population, as long as we avoid the various pi...
The Convener:
Lab
We will consider it.
Mrs Milne:
Con
The paper suggests that this is the first time that a public attitude survey on discrimination has been carried out on this scale. Are there similar studies ...
Professor Curtice:
Let me explain the basis of the paper's claim. We are not aware of a previous attempt to look across the range of groups. Previous research, including some w...
Mrs Milne:
Con
I have a final question. You have pulled together all the strands from the different equality groups. What key benefit can policy makers derive from the resu...