Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
14
Parties on record
2,096,158
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Showing 60 of 2,096,158 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,357. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.18:01Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 11 June 2026, as soon as the text is available.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, is: For 71, Against 50, Abstentions 0.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament believes there is a need to restore publi...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
Joe Long (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to vote. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, is: For 53, Against 70, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAhmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bibby, Neil...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 53, Abstentions 0.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 55, Against 68, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We move to the vote on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar. Members should cast their votes now.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:53Meeting suspended.17:55On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business.I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Hepburn is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall.The first question is, that amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepbu...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:53
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-00301, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.Motion moved,That the Parliament agrees—(a) the following programme of business—Tuesday 16 June 20262....
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
17:52
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That concludes the debate on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics.
Jackie Baillie Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister misunderstands and is clearly not listening. The people of Scotland are interested in those wider questions, but that is not what I am suggesting the inquiry should do. I have been very clear on that point.Let me go back to what Robin McAlpine had to say about dem...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I find it interesting that, although Ms Baillie said that it is not for others to take an interest in the SNP’s internal affairs, she is now talking extensively about the appointment of a KC and the thin nature of our internal governance review. It seems that she is taking an ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The key and absolute qualification for any First Minister of Scotland is that“that individual must be able to command the trust of the Parliament and the public.”—Official Report, 28 November 2001; c 4118.Those are not my words but those of John Swinney and, on that point, we ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, I do not, so let us move on.The point that I was going to make was one that I made earlier: it is important that, as an institution, we focus on matters that are of primary interest and of paramount importance to the people of Scotland. Instead of raising issues like this,...
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I remember how sleazy, arrogant and entitled Labour became when it dominated Scottish politics. Does the minister see that at all in his party?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way to Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
: —that the SNP has won five elections in a row. It has earned the trust of the people for five elections in a row. It is just a matter of fact—there is no arrogance about it; it is just a reality.I think that it is important that we—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Please speak through the chair.
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It was the mindset that Murrell had.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It is not a mindset but a matter of fact—
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is your mindset.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
There are two things there. First, the public can be confident that the crime that has been perpetrated has been fully investigated and prosecuted and there is now a plea. I do not think that any of us is suggesting that there is a lack of confidence in that process—I certainl...
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is a very generous offer, but I will have to decline.The minister is talking about the SNP investigating itself. How does that improve the confidence of the public in the Government party in this country?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I do not think that Mr Rennie is one of those SNP members, but maybe he wants to apply to join—we might let him come on board.I will give way one more time, to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That brings me to a point that I was going to make later, because it picks up on a point that Willie Rennie made—I see that Mr Rennie is now paying attention to me. He made the point that my party does not want to do anything in response to some of the issues that have arisen ...
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister does not want to accept questions coming from other parts of the chamber. Does he accept that questions are also coming from people who served his party, both in the NEC and in Parliaments? Those people are saying that blocks and obstructions were put in the way o...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way one more time.
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That was a wonderful pre-prepared line delivered tremendously well, Ms Lindsay. We look forward to much more of that.The past few weeks have been uncomfortable, difficult and very distressing for many of us—I will not pretend otherwise. No one would believe me if I did. Howeve...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The only thing that I would say in response to that is that the SNP lecturing Reform on sleaze is like Lord Mandelson selling ethics lessons. No one is buying it.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I say to Amanda Lindsay that I might take more seriously the notion that my party operated like a syndicate if her party was not one that had been formed as a private limited company that is owned by one individual. Let us just remember where we are all starting from. Interrup...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Yet, when it comes to holding one of its own to account for embezzling party funds, the urgency mysteriously disappears.Meanwhile, Scottish Labour, which called this debate, might want to reflect on its party’s sleazy history. After all, its hero, Lord Mandelson, was twice for...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The member must be heard.
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Instead of full transparency, we have had silence, deflection and obstruction. The First Minister likes to lecture others about integrity, yet he still refuses to put country before party. If he truly believes in restoring public trust, he must stop hiding behind lawyers and f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, no, minister. The member does not have to take interventions.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Ah, come on!
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Forgive me, but I wish to make progress.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Amanda Lindsay (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I support this debate and back calls for a full parliamentary inquiry into the shocking embezzlement of party funds by Peter Murrell.The Scottish people deserve the truth. For years, the SNP has presented itself as a slick, professional political machine. In reality, it has op...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I think that Anas Sarwar would be horrified if a former or a current leader of a political party told its members how they should vote on a committee decision. Interruption. That is for committees to decide, and I am not going to instruct any—Interruption. Look at him laughing...
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Mr Harvie says that committees in this Parliament could investigate certain prosecutions. To clarify, if a motion came to the justice committee, would his party support such an investigation by the justice committee?
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I beg your pardon, Presiding Officer. I was just discovering how much some speeches improve when I remove my hearing aids.Sadly, today, we have very much seen the debate that I expected. There has been some opportunistic partisanship dressed up as principled concern, and there...
← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 February 2016

25 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Grahame, Christine SNP Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale Watch on SPTV

Presiding Officer, as you say, I am speaking on behalf of the Justice Committee and not in a personal capacity, but first I personally want to commend Michael McMahon for his tenacity and his informed pursuit of the bill up hill and down dale. I know what that is like—I have done it myself, and I know that you become committed to the bill, as Mr McMahon has shown.

The process has been useful because Mr McMahon has, in putting forward his proposals, reignited the debate surrounding the not proven verdict, and I welcome the opportunity to speak on the committee’s consideration of the bill.

As Mr McMahon has outlined, the bill consists of two distinct sections. Section 1 seeks to amend the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 by removing the not proven verdict and retaining the verdicts of guilty and not guilty. Section 2 would introduce a requirement for a qualified majority of at least two thirds in jury trials in order to secure a conviction.

Members will be aware that the Justice Committee agreed to postpone consideration of the bill while the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill progressed through Parliament. That decision was made in light of the fact that both bills contained similar provisions relating to jury majorities. Following amendments at stage 2, the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill no longer made provision to abolish the general requirement for corroboration. The provision on jury majorities, which was seen as incidental to the removal of corroboration, was therefore also removed.

After the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill was passed, the committee returned to Mr McMahon’s bill. We issued a call for written views in November last year and received submissions from a variety of stakeholders including lawyers, academics, Police Scotland, victim support groups and several justices of the peace. We took oral evidence on the bill during a single evidence session on 19 January 2016, in which we heard from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and then from Mr McMahon. It is not my intention to discuss all the issues that are discussed in the committee’s stage 1 report, but I will highlight some of the more pertinent topics that were identified during our consideration.

The need for legal proceedings to have a clear outcome led to some questioning the merits of a system with two verdicts that, in legal terms, do the same thing—namely, acquit. We received evidence that often, as Mr McMahon said, the not proven verdict is not well understood and carries with it a degree of stigma. The suggestion is that the accused was probably guilty but that there was not, on that specific occasion, sufficient evidence to convict. That is the no-smoke-without-fire theory. Clearly, that is unhelpful not only for the accused but for the victims of crime. The perception that a judgment carries with it finality is important and helps victims to move on with their lives. Many support groups favoured the abolition of the not proven verdict on those grounds.

There was some discussion in evidence of whether, if a two-verdict system were to be adopted, it should be the not guilty verdict rather than the not proven verdict that is abolished. It was argued, for example, that verdicts of proven and not proven better reflect the role of the judge or jury at the conclusion of a trial as their deliberations are based on proof of evidence rather than on taking a view on whether or not the accused is innocent. Of course, the not proven and proven verdicts are Scottish. Arguments that were advanced in favour of a choice between guilty and not guilty highlighted the greater public familiarity with such verdicts, and the fact that the key question to be resolved in any criminal trial is whether the accused is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt and the person should therefore be deemed to be innocent until it is proven otherwise.

Section 2 seeks to introduce a system under which a guilty verdict requires the support of at least two thirds of the jury. The committee appreciates that those proposals were advanced as a way of ensuring that the abolition of the not proven verdict would not heighten the risk of wrongful convictions. We understand Mr McMahon’s position and the need, as he saw it, to introduce measures that would mitigate the impact of the proposals that were set out in section 1. However, we noted the views that were articulated in evidence on the bill and in the context of the wider debate regarding criminal procedure in Scotland.

The committee, throughout its scrutiny of the bill, considered whether a change in jury majority might have a corresponding effect in other areas of the legal system. For example, a number of support organisations were concerned that any increase in the majority required for a conviction would disproportionately affect victims of certain crimes. There was also a perception that the abolition of the not proven verdict might lead to more unsafe convictions—or, conversely, to significantly more not guilty verdicts. Although those concerns were to a greater or lesser degree a matter for conjecture, they raised wider questions about the behaviour and decision making process of juries, which is an issue that the committee has been looking at for some time.

Without a sound evidence base, it is not possible to know how the proposals relating to jury majorities might play out in practice, and the majority of the committee concluded that more work needed to be done before changes were made to that area of the law. The parameters of the research that is proposed by the Government are still to be framed, but we would expect that any research on jury behaviour would take into consideration the matters that we have explored during the consideration of Mr McMahon’s bill.

As we have heard, the committee was generally supportive of the proposals relating to the abolition of the three-verdict system. The bill has shone a welcome light on the ambiguities of the not proven verdict and the issues that it continues to throw up for justice in Scotland. As I have said before, the not proven verdict is often deeply unsatisfactory for victims and is often no better for the accused. Like many members of the committee, I believe that the not proven verdict is on borrowed time. However, although we understand the reasons for Mr McMahon including the measures relating to jury majorities, it was the committee’s view, having considered all the evidence, that further research on decision making by juries is needed before we proceed with the other reforms that are set out in the bill. The committee was therefore unable to support the general principles of the bill.

The cabinet secretary announced in September that the Government would be conducting research into jury behaviour, and the committee hopes that the research will proceed as soon as possible. I would not want Mr McMahon to be disheartened, because sometimes we just have to keep going at something, as he will know. I think that he has made huge progress and that the issue is not done and dusted by any means. It is up to any incoming Government to decide how to take it further, but Mr McMahon has, on balance, the sound support of the committee on at least one part of his bill; it is the other part that we think needs further research.

I look forward to hearing other members’ contributions to this debate and to receiving the Scottish Government’s response to our committee report.

16:16  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15429, in the name of Michael McMahon, on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. 15:59
Michael McMahon (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Today we debate and vote on whether the Parliament agrees to the general princi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
I call Christine Grahame to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee. 16:09
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
Presiding Officer, as you say, I am speaking on behalf of the Justice Committee and not in a personal capacity, but first I personally want to commend Michae...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
First, I would like to thank Michael McMahon and the non-Government bills unit for their work on this legislation. Like other members, I commend Michael McMa...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab) Lab
As Michael McMahon said, I lodged an amendment to his motion, and I am disappointed that the Presiding Officer did not select it for debate. I will neverthel...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to participate in this stage 1 debate on the Criminal Verdicts (Scotland) Bill. Michael McMahon has waited some considerable time for the bill t...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It has been a rollercoaster ride since I joined the Justice Committee in 2013. We have scrutinised many pieces of legislation, some of which we stopped, some...
Michael McMahon Lab
Will the member give way?
Christian Allard SNP
I am sorry, but I have only a few minutes. Perhaps the member can address the issue later. I would have been happy to consider abolishing the not proven ver...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We now move to closing speeches. 16:38
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank members for the constructive debate this afternoon. It has been a pleasure to take part in it. Like others, I begin by paying tribute to Michael McM...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As is evident from this afternoon’s debate, changes to elements of criminal justice procedure are famously difficult to achieve and sometimes take decades—an...
Michael Matheson SNP
The debate has provided Parliament with a useful opportunity to look at the merits and shortcomings of having a three-verdict system in which two of the verd...
Christine Grahame SNP
This follows on from what Cameron Buchanan said. If the not proven verdict were to disappear, the abolition would also pertain when it is not a jury making t...
Michael Matheson SNP
Of course, and that is one of the issues that we can consider when we frame the research. Using real jurors also carries a risk of exposing the system or in...
Michael McMahon Lab
I thank the staff of the non-Government bills unit, whose assistance has been invaluable to me over the past number of years. I am also grateful to the peop...
Christian Allard SNP
I thank the member for taking my intervention. He is not the first person to have quoted Victim Support Scotland. I agree with him about the not proven verdi...
Michael McMahon Lab
That is one piece of evidence, but the majority of responses to the consultation suggested otherwise. That is all evidence that allows people to determine wh...
Michael McMahon Lab
I am sorry—I will not take an intervention. At present, a jury in Scotland can return a verdict of guilty when at least eight of its members are in favour o...