Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2015
16 Dec 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I return to the point of order that I made yesterday, which was to register the fact that, 23 hours before the debate that we are about to have, we had not seen the Scottish Government’s response to the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee’s stage 1 report.
After you asked the Minister for Parliamentary Business to speak to the relevant ministers, I was genuinely shocked when, at 6.45 pm last night, we received information from the clerks to the committee that the Scottish Government had changed its mind and would no longer give us its response in advance of our debate.
That is unsatisfactory. It is not just a matter for the committee members. We have a break for recess, and it is an issue of transparency and accountability for the stakeholders and members of the public who have a huge interest in the bill.
I hope, Presiding Officer, that you will be able to reflect on that and communicate with the Government that it is not helping the transparency and accountability of the bill.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15181, in the name of Aileen McLeod, on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill.
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I return to the point of order that I made yesterday, which was to register the fact that, 23 hours before the debate...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I thank Sarah Boyack for advance notice of that point of order. As the member is aware, there is an agreed protocol between the Scottish Parliament and the...
The Minister for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Aileen McLeod)
SNP
I begin by expressing my gratitude to Rob Gibson and the other members of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee for their scrutiny of a...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Con
I hear what the minister says, but would she accept that it sets us at a bit of a disadvantage when we have no clue as to the Government’s response to the st...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
This is a debate on the committee’s stage 1 report, and I am keen to ensure that we give members across the chamber an opportunity to reflect their views, so...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The minister will appreciate that we are being asked to vote this evening on the general principles of the bill, a bill that the committee report has exhaust...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
That will be a matter for committee consideration at stage 2. Members: Oh!
Aileen McLeod
SNP
But we will also be giving an indication. It is the committee’s stage 1 report that we are discussing. We started this process with a good bill, and I know ...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I ask the minister to read the sections of the committee’s report in which we discuss in great detail the fact that the committee is deeply unhappy about whe...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I accept Sarah Boyack’s point on the need to have an urgent review, and we will consider that carefully in our response to the committee’s report. I welcome...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I am just about to finish. We cannot roll back hundreds of years of history overnight and nor can we fix all problems in one easy step. However, we can and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
I call Rob Gibson to speak on behalf of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee. 16:17
Rob Gibson (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
SNP
The Land Reform (Scotland) Bill has generated a huge debate across Scotland about the very land that we stand on. The RACCE Committee’s extensive programme o...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Rob Gibson said that access to information is important. Does the committee agree with the point that Sarah Boyack raised about just how late some informatio...
Rob Gibson
SNP
With due respect, that has nothing to do with the issues in the report that I am talking about. We will see the Government’s response in due course, and Liz ...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Rob Gibson
SNP
Briefly.
Claudia Beamish
Lab
I thank the member. Would he agree that, in view of SNH’s 2014 report on deer management, the issue is even more significant?
Rob Gibson
SNP
The report showed a lack of progress, but deer counts by SNH have also been lacking. The bill must be amended in that regard. Provisions on agricultural hol...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You must close, please.
Rob Gibson
SNP
We cannot ignore the warning by Scottish Land & Estates of huge financial penalties should land reform laws interfere with entrenched property rights. Is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
You must finish, please.
Rob Gibson
SNP
Ms Shields put it succinctly when she said: “the question should not be ‘Is it legitimate to disturb property rights?’ but ‘Is it legitimate not to?’” 16:27
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the fantastic team that supported the RACCE committee throughout its work and the many communities, members of the public and organisations who gave ...
Aileen McLeod
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
If the minister can give me a good answer, I will be delighted to take an intervention.
Aileen McLeod
SNP
I make the point to Sarah Boyack that work on compulsory sale orders is being taken forward through our housing and land reform team. It is part and parcel o...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
That was a helpful intervention, minister. I hope that, in the light of that report, she will now come to the right conclusion. We would certainly be keen to...