Committee
Education and Culture Committee 07 December 2015
07 Dec 2015 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
With respect, Mr McArthur, I explicitly referred to that in my opening statement. However, I appreciate that it was a lengthy statement. Therefore, with the committee’s forbearance, I will repeat an aspect of what I said. We can and will develop standardised assessment that gives us the information that we need without specifying a narrow window. That is so that our children will benefit from an assessment that informs and elicits actions and improvements throughout the school year. I hope that that is clear. It might also be worth reiterating what I have said about the publication of assessment data. We will publish teacher judgment data on curriculum for excellence levels in literacy and numeracy, which are, of course, informed by standardised assessment. On your point, convener, not operating a national assessment window limits the comparability of standard assessment data, which therefore removes many of the concerns that were previously raised around the publication of information. In response to Liz Smith’s point, Craig Munro, the director of education in Fife, clearly stated to the committee his view that standardised assessment would not add to teacher workload and that the policy was very much about assessing in a better way and having more reliable and consistent information. Our view is that the new Scottish standardised assessment should streamline and replace the assessments that are currently purchased by education authorities across the country. As I indicated earlier, the cost of the implementation of standardised assessment will be borne by the Scottish Government. I turn to Mark Griffin’s substantive comments. He spoke very eloquently about the needs of our looked-after children. I am not unsympathetic to what he aspires to achieve, but the additional support needs legislation very much captures the needs of looked-after children and, as the committee may be aware, the looked-after child strategy was published in the past week to 10 days. 12:15 I remain open-minded about using the bill’s enabling powers to extend the duties to other groups of children in the future. However, I know that we all have a shared commitment on that issue. I am certainly always open to further discussion on the matter should Mr Griffin or any other member of the committee wish to pursue it further. On Mrs Scanlon’s point about participation, which the convener reiterated, the duty as drafted means that ministers and local authorities have to have regard to access. Therefore, it strengthens the current position. On setting targets for the reduction in equalities of outcome, our ambition is to close the attainment gap and not just to halve it or whatever. Members make the important point that we will need markers and milestones. The annual review process and action plans in which we will constantly review what we are doing and its effectiveness will be an important part of establishing, in due course, the appropriate markers or milestones. It is worth remembering that we do not have good, reliable baseline information on broad general education, hence our support for standardised assessment. Once the review process has been implemented and we have commented and put into action the national improvement framework, we will be in a better position to introduce meaningful milestones or markers about how we intend to reach our ambitions. I stress that we are not interested in crude, arbitrary or short-term target setting. We do not want to have targets that have a narrow focus or which could skew our view of what a good education looks like. Some of today’s proposals on targets do not sit well alongside a curriculum that focuses on the needs of each and every child to achieve their potential, no matter where that potential lies. In essence, we are taking steps to establish the national improvement framework to provide robust, consistent information about attainment that allows parents, parliamentarians and communities to monitor children’s progress with their learning and, indeed, to hold local and national Government to account.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Education and Culture Committee’s 30th meeting in 2015. My name is Stewart Maxwell; I am a West Scotland MSP and t...
The Convener
SNP
I remind members that this group is about a big part of the bill. Given its size and complexity, I will give extra flexibility to and be as lenient as possib...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance)
SNP
Good morning, committee. Collectively and individually, the Government amendments in the group will give effect to and support our key priorities of deliveri...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
This is a historic occasion.
Angela Constance
SNP
None of my amendments specifies the content of the framework or the detail of the assessment. That is deliberate. It would be inappropriate to specify the ex...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome the pupils of Commercial primary school. It is good to see you—welcome to the Education a...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I believe that we need to put looked-after children at the heart of the attainment gap challenge. We are seeking to provide an equal footing for Scotland’s k...
The Convener
SNP
I welcome a second group of pupils from Commercial primary school to the Education and Culture Committee. I call John Pentland to speak to amendment 104B and...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Amendments 104B, 104C and 104F were lodged by Malcolm Chisholm. He believes that the amendments would help to reduce pupil inequalities and strengthen outcom...
The Convener
SNP
I call Mary Scanlon to speak to amendment 104E and the other amendments in the group.
Mary Scanlon
Con
It is a great privilege to sit in this very grand room in Dunfermline. I am sitting looking at a plaque to the first provost of Dunfermline, who was provost ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I call Liam McArthur to speak to amendment 106A and the other amendments in the group.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I will start by offering Mary Scanlon some gentle advice. She might be in danger of overplaying her hand if the dark mutterings among Scottish National Party...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, Liam. If any other members wish to contribute to this debate, could they please indicate? I call Liz Smith.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thank you for allowing me to speak, convener. There is no doubt that every party in the Scottish Parliament is absolutely determined to do something to raise...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. I wish to speak against amendments 106B and 107A to 107D, in the name of Mary Scanlon, and amendments 162 and 163, in the name of Mark Griffin....
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
When Mary Scanlon was speaking, I was reminded of an old colleague of mine at Renfrewshire Council, Jim Mitchell. When he was winning an argument and getting...
The Convener
SNP
Cabinet secretary, before I call you to wind up, I have three questions for you; I hope that you will be able to cover them when you sum up. The first is on ...
Angela Constance
SNP
I gave a lengthy statement at the beginning of the meeting and I thank the committee for its forbearance. I will try hard not to repeat that lengthy statemen...
Liam McArthur
LD
On that point, you have referred several times to an assessment process. As I said, there is universal agreement that that assessment process is part and par...
Angela Constance
SNP
With respect, Mr McArthur, I explicitly referred to that in my opening statement. However, I appreciate that it was a lengthy statement. Therefore, with the ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome a third group of pupils from Commercial primary school. Welcome to you all—I hope that you enjoy v...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I appreciate what the cabinet secretary had to say. I do not doubt for a second her or anyone else’s ambition to close the attainment gap for looked-after ch...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104A disagreed to. Amendments 104B and 104C not moved. Amendment 104D moved—Mark...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104D be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104D disagreed to. Amendment 104E moved—Mary Scanlon.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104E be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.