Committee
Education and Culture Committee 07 December 2015
07 Dec 2015 · S4 · Education and Culture Committee
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
When Mary Scanlon was speaking, I was reminded of an old colleague of mine at Renfrewshire Council, Jim Mitchell. When he was winning an argument and getting cross-party support, he went out of his way to make sure he lost it in the next 10 or 15 minutes. Mary Scanlon is not quite as bad as that, as we are still with her on one amendment. The old chamber that we are in will have had many debates on educational attainment. We can almost feel it in the building. The council will have constantly had debates about narrowing or closing the attainment gap. The national improvement framework creates an opportunity to get the right resource to the right place, ensuring that we target the right resource to the right area and the right school for the right child at the right time, and the information can ensure that we do that. Our 32 local authorities already use forms of assessment, and having the national improvement framework as a way to push this forward is a good foundation. In taking evidence, we have heard supportive comments from Ian Ellis, chair of the national parent forum of Scotland, who said: “Most parents do not see the data, so we do not know how good it is. That is the good thing about the new framework ... We need to start sharing data properly and having meaningful discussions.”—Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 17 November 2015; c 6. It is important to ensure that parents are involved right from the start. I think that it was Liam McArthur who mentioned Keir Bloomer, who is deputy convener of the Royal Society of Edinburgh’s education committee. He said: “Where I do think that Nicola Sturgeon is certainly correct is that we do not have the information that we need to allow us to diagnose the problem and improve the system as a whole. Testing”— we are talking about assessment here— “does not of itself improve anything, but it gives you the evidence on which future improvement can be based.” That last line is the most important aspect of the national improvement framework. It is about getting the right resource in the right place to the right child at the right time. The Government is to be commended for that. It shows us a way forward to narrow the attainment gap, in the hope of eventually closing it. We hope that chambers such as this one will not have to play host to debates like this one in future.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Stewart Maxwell)
SNP
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Education and Culture Committee’s 30th meeting in 2015. My name is Stewart Maxwell; I am a West Scotland MSP and t...
The Convener
SNP
I remind members that this group is about a big part of the bill. Given its size and complexity, I will give extra flexibility to and be as lenient as possib...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning (Angela Constance)
SNP
Good morning, committee. Collectively and individually, the Government amendments in the group will give effect to and support our key priorities of deliveri...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
This is a historic occasion.
Angela Constance
SNP
None of my amendments specifies the content of the framework or the detail of the assessment. That is deliberate. It would be inappropriate to specify the ex...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome the pupils of Commercial primary school. It is good to see you—welcome to the Education a...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I believe that we need to put looked-after children at the heart of the attainment gap challenge. We are seeking to provide an equal footing for Scotland’s k...
The Convener
SNP
I welcome a second group of pupils from Commercial primary school to the Education and Culture Committee. I call John Pentland to speak to amendment 104B and...
John Pentland (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)
Lab
Amendments 104B, 104C and 104F were lodged by Malcolm Chisholm. He believes that the amendments would help to reduce pupil inequalities and strengthen outcom...
The Convener
SNP
I call Mary Scanlon to speak to amendment 104E and the other amendments in the group.
Mary Scanlon
Con
It is a great privilege to sit in this very grand room in Dunfermline. I am sitting looking at a plaque to the first provost of Dunfermline, who was provost ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. I call Liam McArthur to speak to amendment 106A and the other amendments in the group.
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
I will start by offering Mary Scanlon some gentle advice. She might be in danger of overplaying her hand if the dark mutterings among Scottish National Party...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, Liam. If any other members wish to contribute to this debate, could they please indicate? I call Liz Smith.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Thank you for allowing me to speak, convener. There is no doubt that every party in the Scottish Parliament is absolutely determined to do something to raise...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. I wish to speak against amendments 106B and 107A to 107D, in the name of Mary Scanlon, and amendments 162 and 163, in the name of Mark Griffin....
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP)
SNP
When Mary Scanlon was speaking, I was reminded of an old colleague of mine at Renfrewshire Council, Jim Mitchell. When he was winning an argument and getting...
The Convener
SNP
Cabinet secretary, before I call you to wind up, I have three questions for you; I hope that you will be able to cover them when you sum up. The first is on ...
Angela Constance
SNP
I gave a lengthy statement at the beginning of the meeting and I thank the committee for its forbearance. I will try hard not to repeat that lengthy statemen...
Liam McArthur
LD
On that point, you have referred several times to an assessment process. As I said, there is universal agreement that that assessment process is part and par...
Angela Constance
SNP
With respect, Mr McArthur, I explicitly referred to that in my opening statement. However, I appreciate that it was a lengthy statement. Therefore, with the ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you very much. Before I call Mark Griffin, I welcome a third group of pupils from Commercial primary school. Welcome to you all—I hope that you enjoy v...
Mark Griffin
Lab
I appreciate what the cabinet secretary had to say. I do not doubt for a second her or anyone else’s ambition to close the attainment gap for looked-after ch...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104A disagreed to. Amendments 104B and 104C not moved. Amendment 104D moved—Mark...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104D be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) Pentland, John (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab) A...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 3, Against 6, Abstentions 0. Amendment 104D disagreed to. Amendment 104E moved—Mary Scanlon.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 104E be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.