Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 November 2015
25 Nov 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Clyde and Hebrides Ferry Services
Any student of politics of any duration who looked in on today’s debate would obviously be inspired by the nature of the debate so far—although they might get the impression that they have fallen through a time warp back to the 1970s. So far, the discussion has gone back to the good old-fashioned approach of “public good, private bad” and “no privatisation at any cost.” That is an approach that I had thought we had lost a long time ago.
Let us first consider the motion that the Labour Party has presented us with today. There is without doubt affection for CalMac.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-14942, in the name of David Stewart, on keeping CalMac public. Before we start the debate, I remind membe...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
As a lifelong trade unionist, I warmly welcome to the gallery this afternoon officials and members representing CalMac Ferries and beyond. I would ask all me...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart
Lab
Not now. I will take an intervention from the member later. Let us not forget that CalMac has run the Clyde and Hebrides ferry routes at profit in every yea...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart
Lab
Not now. As the West Highland Free Press said: “Serco is not a shipping company. It is a multi-faceted specialist in outsourcing which exists to exploit th...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart
Lab
Not now. We know how the model works: the Tories privatise an asset; Serco bids to manage the asset; it then cuts the service to the bone and posts a handso...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David Stewart
Lab
Not at this point. In a parliamentary question in June this year, I asked the transport minister whether he had raised the Teckal exemption with the Europea...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay)
SNP
If David Stewart cared to expand on the answer that I gave him, members would hear that the Teckal exemption is irrelevant because the maritime cabotage regu...
David Stewart
Lab
I note what the minister says, and I might have some news for him and the Scottish National Party Government in my speech. Over the summer, I headed to Brus...
The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay)
SNP
I will begin on a point of consensus. Whatever my disagreement with David Stewart on the legal opinion or on matters of interpretation, and whatever disagree...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab)
Lab
The minister says that the Scottish Government wants publicly owned ferry services. Does he think that a private company can deliver a publicly owned service...
Derek Mackay
SNP
As a consequence of our designing the tender process, we will continue to own the vessels and to set fares and timetables. In that sense, the services are st...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
At what point will the minister acknowledge not just Teckal’s existence but the fact that case law and the decisions taken on Teckal have changed the circums...
Derek Mackay
SNP
The member knows that it is not practice to share legal advice with others, but a useful exercise over the summer considered the legal advice, and I am afrai...
David Stewart
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Derek Mackay
SNP
Of course.
David Stewart
Lab
I understand the minister’s point, but does he understand that it is in his power today to enforce the 2014 EU procurement directives, which make it easier t...
Derek Mackay
SNP
David Stewart keeps on returning to the matter of legal opinion. It is our opinion that we have to undertake the process—there is no escaping it. Within the ...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
Any student of politics of any duration who looked in on today’s debate would obviously be inspired by the nature of the debate so far—although they might ge...
Johann Lamont
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone
Con
No, thank you—not at the moment. That affection for CalMac is genuine because so many people who depend on its services know that CalMac is the provider. On...
Sarah Boyack
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
Will the member give way?
Alex Johnstone
Con
No, thank you. We must get a handle on the cost of ferry services. We support in principle the notion that the Government advanced of the road equivalent ta...
Derek Mackay
SNP
Does the member not accept that that is partly to do with the very aim that I have suggested—that of safeguarding the lifeline services and not having them p...
Alex Johnstone
Con
That would have been the effect had the services been completely unbundled but, as the Government and the minister know, the services could have been partly ...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I say to Mr Johnstone that the truth is that we lost a vote, as one or two colleagues on the far benches will well remember. Back in 2005, lots of Labour col...