Committee
Justice Committee 03 November 2015
03 Nov 2015 · S4 · Justice Committee
Item of business
Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
During stage 1 consideration, the committee came to the conclusion that there was no need for mandatory fatal accident inquiries into the deaths of those who are detained under mental health legislation, because some deaths of such people are straightforward. The decision was influenced by the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland’s comments about the number of deaths of detained patients that are a result of natural causes. However, in preparation for the stage 1 debate, I revisited Lord Cullen’s review and note that he stated: “even investigations into deaths by natural causes may reveal unsafe conditions.” He continued: “it is in the public interest that an FAI should be held into the deaths of those detained by the state, especially those who are most vulnerable.” I am therefore not convinced that the monitoring and investigation of cases by the Mental Welfare Commission are adequate safeguards for protecting some of the most vulnerable people in society, particularly when such individuals have no family members to advocate for them. It is that scenario that prompted amendment 2, which would provide for mandatory FAIs into deaths of those who are in mental health detention or those who are receiving treatment voluntarily, although there would be an opt-out provision. The Mental Welfare Commission and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concern that having mandatory FAIs for the approximately 73 deaths a year of patients who are detained under mental health legislation would vastly increase the number of FAIs. However, that fails to take account of the effect of my amendment 5, which would put in place an opt-out provision for the Lord Advocate, provided that he gave the reasons why he considered that no FAI was necessary. As the authorities are confident that the vast majority of such deaths are easily explained, the provisions should not be onerous. Crucially, the opt-out and the compulsory explanation that would be required would ensure that, where patients who were detained by the state had no family members to advocate on their behalf, the conditions and circumstances of their death were properly scrutinised. That would ensure complete accountability and transparency regarding such deaths. Furthermore, in England and Wales, all deaths of patients in compulsory mental health detention are subject to an inquest by the coroner, unless it has been ascertained that the death was from natural causes. To put the necessity for my amendments in perspective, in 2013-14, there were 60 deaths of patients in formal detention under mental health legislation in Scotland, but there were six times as many deaths—364—of informal or voluntary patients. Given that, my amendments not only provide important safeguards but ensure compliance with article 2 of the European convention on human rights, on the right to life. The state has a general duty to protect life, and it is therefore only right that deaths of those detained by the state are thoroughly scrutinised. However, I have taken on board the comments about the number of cases that that approach may involve, and although that is not a reason in itself to exclude the deaths of individuals who have voluntarily received treatment for a mental disorder, I consider that the amendments in the name of Alison McInnes, which complement the amendments in my name, strike the right balance at this time. I move amendment 1.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is stage 2 proceedings on the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc (Scotland) Bill. I remind members that our aim is to complete stage...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is grouped with amendments 56, 2, 2A, 57, 3 to 5, 5A, 6, 58 and 7.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
During stage 1 consideration, the committee came to the conclusion that there was no need for mandatory fatal accident inquiries into the deaths of those who...
Alison McInnes (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
I welcome the chance to speak on the amendments to section 2. Section 2 sets out the circumstances under which mandatory public inquiries into certain death...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP)
SNP
I have listened carefully to what both members have said. Margaret Mitchell referred to Lord Cullen’s report, but I think that it is fair to point out that ...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Ind)
Ind
For me, the issue is about the relationship between the state and the individual. It is also about perception, and I think that any member of the public who ...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Mr Campbell is absolutely right: the Lord Advocate has the discretion to have an inquiry. More to the point, I do not think that the Lord Advocate would make...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, have a lot of sympathy for the amendments in the names of Margaret Mitchell and Alison McInnes. On what Roddy Campbell said, having the discretion to...
The Convener
SNP
I am sympathetic to the arguments but I take a fairly plain view of things: something is either mandatory or not mandatory. As has been explained, there is d...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Paul Wheelhouse)
SNP
The group includes amendments in the name of Margaret Mitchell that would require mandatory FAIs into the deaths in hospitals of patients receiving compulsor...
The Convener
SNP
It is really for Margaret Mitchell to wind up, but Alison McInnes is writing something, so I wonder whether she wants to respond to any of that, first.
Alison McInnes
LD
I am grateful for the opportunity to do that. I am also grateful to the minister for the assurances that he has put on the record today, particularly in rela...
The Convener
SNP
You do not need to say anything about that at the moment.
Alison McInnes
LD
Okay.
The Convener
SNP
Hold us in suspense on that. Margaret Mitchell will now wind up and press or seek to withdraw amendment 1.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I will address the stigma that the minister suggested will somehow occur if there were mandatory FAIs for detained mental health patients. I refer the minist...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1 agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 52, in the name of Alison McInnes, is grouped with amendments 53 and 54.
Alison McInnes
LD
This group of amendments also refers to section 2. The main amendment is amendment 53, which introduces the requirement to hold a mandatory FAI as a result o...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
I have listened to what Alison McInnes has said, but we need to bear in mind that we already have the Looked After Children (Scotland) Regulations 2009, whic...
Paul Wheelhouse
SNP
This group of amendments in the name of Alison McInnes seeks to require mandatory FAIs into the deaths of children who were looked after by a local authority...
Alison McInnes
LD
I caution the minister against making a case on the basis of the resource impact, because I think that that is the weakest argument that can be made. If a nu...
The Convener
SNP
I agree with you. I do not like to hear resources being brought in—the argument should be based on the principle.
Alison McInnes
LD
That aside, the minister has set out a detailed reason for not supporting amendments 52, 53 and 54. I considered them to be probing amendments to test the Go...
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 2A be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Convener
SNP
There will be a division. For Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Ind) McDougall, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Lab) McInnes, Alison (North East Scotlan...
The Convener
SNP
The result of the division is: For 5, Against 4, Abstentions 0. Amendment 2A agreed to.
The Convener
SNP
The question is, that amendment 2, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.