Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 08 October 2014
08 Oct 2014 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Policing
In a minute.
Let me be clear: operational independence is different from accountability. The chief constable is solely responsible for decisions to enforce the law, but he is accountable—in our case, to the SPA—for those decisions.
I am disappointed by Mr Pearson’s motion and I fundamentally disagree with it.
Policing should not be used as a political football, and Mr Pearson should stop traducing the police and the SPA, undermining the morale of officers and staff, and attempting to score cheap political points at the expense of thousands of hardworking officers and staff who cannot answer back.
We have—
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-11114, in the name of Graeme Pearson, on policing. 15:09
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
It is with some disappointment that I feel the need to move this motion. It is my belief that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice has abandoned his responsibil...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Kenny MacAskill)
SNP
We have discussed policing many times in the chamber over the past 18 months. The Parliament and three committees debated the legislation at length before it...
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
If that is the case—if there is that causation—why did crime in England and Wales fall 15 per cent last year, and why is it at its lowest point since records...
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Crime in England and Wales has not dropped as far or as fast as it has dropped in Scotland, but the decline in police numbers is significant and huge. Number...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
Not at the moment. That is not only my view, but the view of Niven Rennie, the president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, who said thi...
Graeme Pearson
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
In a minute. Let me be clear: operational independence is different from accountability. The chief constable is solely responsible for decisions to enforce ...
Neil Findlay
Lab
Will cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
I am coming into my last minute. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Kenny MacAskill
SNP
We have come a long way since the early stages of reform and the arrangements are now much more effective. The SPA stands for not simply holding the police t...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
It is important to stress at the outset that since Police Scotland was formed more than 18 months ago, front-line police officers have worked tremendously ha...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The member must conclude.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
It is the cabinet secretary’s duty to ensure the effectiveness of the checks and balances that should guarantee the enforcement of essential accountability f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I am afraid that the member must close.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
In that respect, the cabinet secretary’s stewardship has been totally inept. I move amendment S4M-11114.1, to leave out from “responsibility” to end and ins...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
We are very tight for time this afternoon. If members wish to speak in the debate, they must press their request-to-speak button. Members must stick to a ver...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
SNP
Graeme Pearson, in his opening speech, asked, “Who watches the watchers?”, and his motion mentions responsibility, accountability, scrutiny and challenge. I...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP)
SNP
Does the member agree that the fact that there are now only five or maybe six Labour members in the chamber and the fact that only half the afternoon has bee...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are approaching your final minute, Mr Stewart.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
I agree that it is completely a political stunt. I would go much further, because I agree with Brian Docherty that this is about “point-scoring politicians” ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Come to a close, please.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
From some members, we have seen flip-flopping on the issue to create instability and to interfere and point score.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I am afraid that you must close.
Kevin Stewart
SNP
That has got to stop.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Members must keep strictly to four minutes, please. 15:36
Elaine Murray (Dumfriesshire) (Lab)
Lab
Like other members, I welcomed last week’s announcement by the chief constable that he had jettisoned his policy of deploying armed police officers on routin...
Christian Allard (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
I am afraid that four minutes is far too short to debate the 203 words in the motion that Graeme Pearson, the Labour justice spokesman, has put before us. Le...