Committee
Local Government and Regeneration Committee 18 March 2015
18 Mar 2015 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
Community Empowerment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I do not seek to pick at the underlying principle of this group of amendments, but I seek information about the implementation of that principle. I will start with something that central belt members might have overlooked: the status and issues relating to the clubs in the Scottish Highland Football League, of which I have three in my parliamentary constituency—in Buckie, Banff and Fraserburgh. As we know, Highland league clubs have successfully been a feeder for more senior leagues. Examples of that are Ross County, which was my father’s club, and of course Caley Jags, which interestingly was formed from the merger of two of the three clubs in Inverness—Clachnacuddin refused to play. That immediately opens up one of the issues, which is that a purchase might relate not to a single club but to the circumstances in which clubs are merging. The construction of the amendments that are before us would probably exclude action by supporters in those circumstances. The mover and supporter of the amendments might care to think about that, because I suspect that that is not their intention. I will by no means cover all the detail, which is substantial, but I will perhaps cover just enough to show that further thinking is needed. There is perhaps a little misunderstanding of how share ownership and voting works—the two might not be as easily connected as is thought. The amendments talk about a majority of the voting shares, which is fine, but there may be circumstances in which previous owners retain a single share that does not have the characteristics of a vote that may cause something to happen, but which carries with it the right to veto a proposed action. When Governments have sold off companies, they have exercised that right, and it also happens in commercial environments. The construction of the amendments perhaps does not fully address that way in which things may happen. The amendments talk about the purchase of the majority of a club. I understand what is intended, but the difficulty is that an individual purchase could well not be about buying a majority of a club, as it might be about adding to a significant shareholding to create a majority. I suspect that the mover and supporter of the amendments do not seek to exclude that, so they might need to look at the construction of the amendments in that regard. Another issue is that there may be circumstances in which the transfer of ownership or part of the ownership of a club takes place without any value exchange. Again, the mover and supporter are unlikely to seek to exclude that. However, that is very tricky territory, so a wee bit more thinking requires to be done. I have a more general question to which I genuinely do not know the answer. It is simply whether, in operating with the provisions of the Companies Act 2006, which is clearly a reserved matter, we are crossing the line into ultra vires issues. I am sure that advice will have been taken on that, but it would be helpful if the mover of the amendments could give us comfort that that issue has been considered. I would hate to see the initiative fall for that particular reason, above all. Finally, I sound a note of caution about the use of the word “fans”. Fans come in all shapes and forms. We should not discount the idea that David Murray was a fan of Rangers—a fan with sufficient money that he could act alone in what he thought was the club’s interest. We need to be careful about how we talk about and define fans. In principle, the amendments are a very good and eminently supportable effort, but further work is required on some of the detail. I do not pretend that I have exhausted all the issues that I might have found if I was a regular member of the committee—rather than someone who was parachuted in at comparatively late notice—and had spent a wee bit more time on the matter.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Kevin Stewart)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting in 2015 of the Local Government and Regeneration Committee. If people wish to use tablets or mobile phones duri...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1084, in the name of the minister, is in a group on its own.
The Minister for Local Government and Community Empowerment (Marco Biagi)
SNP
Amendment 1084 responds to the committee’s recommendation to review the legislation relating to Forestry Commission Scotland leasing land to communities for ...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1231, in the name of Alison Johnstone, is grouped with amendments 1232 to 1248.
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I thank the committee for its time today, and I thank the convener for agreeing that this important issue should be considered at stage 2. I know that you ha...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I do not seek to pick at the underlying principle of this group of amendments, but I seek information about the implementation of that principle. I will s...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I, too, am concerned about the technicalities of the bill, legal and otherwise. We discussed the issue at our group meeting, but I would have liked more time...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
SNP
I thank Alison Johnstone for the amendments, which I am broadly supportive of. When Alison sums up, I wonder whether she might give us a little bit more clar...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Lab
I support the amendments. I should say that I am a Kelty Hearts Junior Football Club supporter, but no matter what team people support, if they go regularly ...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I also want to speak in support of amendment 1231, in the name of Alison Johnstone, and in favour of all the amendments in the group. This is about extending...
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Will Mr Macintosh take an intervention?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I will.
Stewart Stevenson
SNP
Would you be sympathetic to the idea that we should extend the provision to the Highland league?
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I am delighted that Stewart Stevenson wants to build on the amendments in this group before we have even accepted them, but I think that we should take it on...
Marco Biagi
SNP
I thank the members who have lodged amendments. I have heard a lot that I can agree with. The Scottish Government is extremely supportive of supporter involv...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind)
Ind
Could the minister give me a clear steer on whether he is minded not to accept the amendments today, or whether he is minded to accept them on the basis that...
Marco Biagi
SNP
Can I perhaps get to that? I was working towards it but, at this point, I want to highlight the issues with the detail. If the amendments were agreed to, the...
John Wilson
Ind
As I understand it, the grounds that some clubs use are owned by the local authorities, so there is already local authority ownership of football grounds in ...
Marco Biagi
SNP
I apologise for my slightly irreverent aside about local authority ownership of stadia in Italy. The point that I was aiming at was made effectively by the d...
Alison Johnstone
Green
I would certainly be happy to work with the minister before stage 3, but I am afraid that those commitments do not yet cover the essentials of my proposal. I...
Marco Biagi
SNP
Those are sentiments that I think we have all broadly expressed in the committee, and they certainly show a positive approach to supporter ownership that the...
Alison Johnstone
Green
If we agree in principle, and if we are as supportive as we all purport to be, we should support the amendments today and look at the technicalities before s...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1085, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 1086, 1249 and 1250.
Marco Biagi
SNP
I was happy to lodge amendments 1085 and 1086 in response to the committee’s recommendations. As you know, the aim of the bill in relation to common good is ...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
I was going to say that amendment 1249 is a probing amendment. It is all very well that Scottish ministers can issue guidance on the management and use of a ...
Marco Biagi
SNP
I am not sure that I understand the distinction that Mr Buchanan is making between policy-based guidance and technical guidance. Policy-based guidance can be...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
I really wanted the minister to explain what form the guidance would take. I am not going to move the amendments in my name; I just want to know what form th...
Marco Biagi
SNP
All guidance is developed in partnership with everyone involved. We know that strong views have been expressed on the management and maintenance of common go...
The Convener
SNP
Amendment 1164, in the name of Ken Macintosh, is grouped with amendments 1165 to 1167, 1229, 1168, 1252 and 1230. I draw members’ attention to the informatio...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I will speak to a number of amendments about allotments on behalf of and with the support of the Scottish Allotments and Gardens Society, which is the key or...