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Showing 60 of 2,095,827 contributions. Latest 30 days: 3,357. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 10 Jun 2026.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
That concludes decision time.18:01Members’ business will be published tomorrow, 11 June 2026, as soon as the text is available.The rest of this Official Report will be published progressively as soon as the text is available.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, is: For 71, Against 50, Abstentions 0.Motion, as amended, agreed to,That the Parliament believes there is a need to restore publi...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Ahmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, ...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
Joe Long (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to vote. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
Your vote has been recorded.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Jenny Gilruth) SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.The vote is closed.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The final question is, that motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, is: For 53, Against 70, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAhmed, Irshad (Edinburgh and Lothians East) (Lab)Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)Bannerman, Max (Highlands and Islands) (Reform)Baxter, Andrew (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (LD)Beresford, Senga (South Scotland) (Reform)Bibby, Neil...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.3, in the name of Russell Findlay, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, is: For 70, Against 53, Abstentions 0.Amendment agreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The next question is, that amendment S7M-00294.2, in the name of Ross Greer, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics, be agreed to. Are we agreed?Members: No.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
The result of the division on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, is: For 55, Against 68, Abstentions 0.Amendment disagreed to.
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
ForAdam, George (Paisley) (SNP)Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)Anderson, Heather (Dundee City West) (SNP)Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley) (SNP)Barratt, David (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)Beattie, Colin (Midlothi...
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
We move to the vote on amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, which seeks to amend motion S7M-00294, in the name of Anas Sarwar. Members should cast their votes now.
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There will be a division.There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.17:53Meeting suspended.17:55On resuming—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business.I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Hepburn is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Ross Greer will fall.The first question is, that amendment S7M-00294.1, in the name of Jamie Hepbu...
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Decision Time
17:53
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-00301, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.Motion moved,That the Parliament agrees—(a) the following programme of business—Tuesday 16 June 20262....
Speaker unknown Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Business Motion
17:52
The Presiding Officer NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That concludes the debate on an inquiry to restore public trust in Scottish politics.
Jackie Baillie Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister misunderstands and is clearly not listening. The people of Scotland are interested in those wider questions, but that is not what I am suggesting the inquiry should do. I have been very clear on that point.Let me go back to what Robin McAlpine had to say about dem...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I find it interesting that, although Ms Baillie said that it is not for others to take an interest in the SNP’s internal affairs, she is now talking extensively about the appointment of a KC and the thin nature of our internal governance review. It seems that she is taking an ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The key and absolute qualification for any First Minister of Scotland is that“that individual must be able to command the trust of the Parliament and the public.”—Official Report, 28 November 2001; c 4118.Those are not my words but those of John Swinney and, on that point, we ...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, I do not, so let us move on.The point that I was going to make was one that I made earlier: it is important that, as an institution, we focus on matters that are of primary interest and of paramount importance to the people of Scotland. Instead of raising issues like this,...
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I remember how sleazy, arrogant and entitled Labour became when it dominated Scottish politics. Does the minister see that at all in his party?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way to Mr Findlay.
Russell Findlay Con Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
: —that the SNP has won five elections in a row. It has earned the trust of the people for five elections in a row. It is just a matter of fact—there is no arrogance about it; it is just a reality.I think that it is important that we—
The Presiding Officer (Kenneth Gibson) NPA Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Please speak through the chair.
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It was the mindset that Murrell had.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
It is not a mindset but a matter of fact—
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is your mindset.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
There are two things there. First, the public can be confident that the crime that has been perpetrated has been fully investigated and prosecuted and there is now a plea. I do not think that any of us is suggesting that there is a lack of confidence in that process—I certainl...
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That is a very generous offer, but I will have to decline.The minister is talking about the SNP investigating itself. How does that improve the confidence of the public in the Government party in this country?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I do not think that Mr Rennie is one of those SNP members, but maybe he wants to apply to join—we might let him come on board.I will give way one more time, to Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That brings me to a point that I was going to make later, because it picks up on a point that Willie Rennie made—I see that Mr Rennie is now paying attention to me. He made the point that my party does not want to do anything in response to some of the issues that have arisen ...
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The minister does not want to accept questions coming from other parts of the chamber. Does he accept that questions are also coming from people who served his party, both in the NEC and in Parliaments? Those people are saying that blocks and obstructions were put in the way o...
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I will give way one more time.
Daniel Johnson Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the minister give way?
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
That was a wonderful pre-prepared line delivered tremendously well, Ms Lindsay. We look forward to much more of that.The past few weeks have been uncomfortable, difficult and very distressing for many of us—I will not pretend otherwise. No one would believe me if I did. Howeve...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The only thing that I would say in response to that is that the SNP lecturing Reform on sleaze is like Lord Mandelson selling ethics lessons. No one is buying it.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I say to Amanda Lindsay that I might take more seriously the notion that my party operated like a syndicate if her party was not one that had been formed as a private limited company that is owned by one individual. Let us just remember where we are all starting from. Interrup...
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Yet, when it comes to holding one of its own to account for embezzling party funds, the urgency mysteriously disappears.Meanwhile, Scottish Labour, which called this debate, might want to reflect on its party’s sleazy history. After all, its hero, Lord Mandelson, was twice for...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
The member must be heard.
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Instead of full transparency, we have had silence, deflection and obstruction. The First Minister likes to lecture others about integrity, yet he still refuses to put country before party. If he truly believes in restoring public trust, he must stop hiding behind lawyers and f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Katy Clark) Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
No, no, minister. The member does not have to take interventions.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Ah, come on!
Amanda Lindsay Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Forgive me, but I wish to make progress.
Jamie Hepburn SNP Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Will the member give way?
Amanda Lindsay (Central Scot and Lothians West) (Reform) Reform Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I support this debate and back calls for a full parliamentary inquiry into the shocking embezzlement of party funds by Peter Murrell.The Scottish people deserve the truth. For years, the SNP has presented itself as a slick, professional political machine. In reality, it has op...
Patrick Harvie Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I think that Anas Sarwar would be horrified if a former or a current leader of a political party told its members how they should vote on a committee decision. Interruption. That is for committees to decide, and I am not going to instruct any—Interruption. Look at him laughing...
Anas Sarwar Lab Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
Mr Harvie says that committees in this Parliament could investigate certain prosecutions. To clarify, if a motion came to the justice committee, would his party support such an investigation by the justice committee?
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green Chamber
10 Jun 2026
Public Trust in Scottish Politics
I beg your pardon, Presiding Officer. I was just discovering how much some speeches improve when I remove my hearing aids.Sadly, today, we have very much seen the debate that I expected. There has been some opportunistic partisanship dressed up as principled concern, and there...
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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 June 2015

02 Jun 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Can Do
Stevenson, Stewart SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

At least one civil servant is due some congratulations from us all. Finding “CAN DO” from the words “capable”, “ambitious”, “networked”, “demand” and “opportunities” is a pretty neat way of capturing the whole idea. I have worked with computers for many decades and we used to do that sort of thing all the time—and it used to be the greatest fun we had.

I want to talk about a rather eclectic subject, but one that is utterly relevant to the topic of debate. It is about one of the threats that come from one of the bills brought forward in the Queen’s speech last week. I refer specifically to the investigatory powers bill that the Tory Government proposes. Within that, the key proposal is a requirement for a back door in software that would enable the security services to read the content of private messages protected by encryption. That all sounds very geekish, and in many ways it is, but it really does matter.

I acknowledge that terrorism is an important part of the threat to business and to people’s lives throughout the world, and we need to respond to it in an appropriate way. However, if we are to continue to be, as the motion says,

“a can do place for business”,

the core of the proposal in the investigatory powers bill simply cannot proceed.

If we have to protect messages—I will go on to talk about the kind of messages that we need to protect—opening up the software that protects messages so that some people have privileged access to read them will create a series of difficulties. First, the lawbreakers simply will not use software that has back doors—they will write their own—so the measure will not particularly affect those who choose to break the law and conceal the content of their messages. It will affect those who are obeying the law; those with evil intent will be unaffected.

Secondly, and more critically, it will open up all our financial transactions to open scrutiny and potential interference. If there is a way in, that way in will become a way in for lots of people. Why does that matter for entrepreneurs in Scotland? It matters, and it matters differentially, because we are a leading source of innovative software for the financial sector. Margaret McDougall just referred to innovative software in her speech. In future, under the kind of regime that is proposed to be introduced, that kind of software might not be produced here. We have a significant interest in producing secure banking software, but if it cannot be developed here, it will be developed elsewhere.

We heard reference to Skyscanner, which depends, for the integrity of the transactions between it and customers worldwide, not just on that little padlock that appears in the top line of the browser but on the software behind it, which provides that protection. The opening up of software, through the bill proposed by the Tories in the Queen’s speech, will damage the integrity of that protection.

That is not just theoretical. Already in the United States, Phil Zimmermann, who is the creator of the world’s most widely used email protection system—the pretty good privacy or PGP system—has started to move his company to Switzerland, because the United States Government is doing something similar. If legislation proceeds in that way, high-tech and high-value contributors to our being what the motion refers to as an “entrepreneurial and innovative nation” will simply depart. That is quite easy to do, as they are not people with fixed assets here, such as big factories. The intellectual skills in those people can move, and they can move tomorrow without any substantial difficulty.

We have to accept that, once a back door has been created, the knowledge of that back door that is supposed to be restricted to the security services—but to lots of people in the security services—will inevitably leak. The most secure software is always open-source software in respect of which everyone can look at the algorithm and improve it. The secrecy is in the key, which is a unique piece of information that is held by a single person. However, the operation and algorithms associated with back doors will inevitably be bypassable. If they are thought to be secret, they will soon be disclosed.

None of that is new. Napoleon’s peninsular war campaign was undermined by Wellington’s cryptologist, George Scovell, who was able to read the intercepted and encrypted orders to the French troops rapidly and routinely. Of course, Napoleon lost the war because that was able to happen.

Each generation moves on to new methods of protecting information. In world war one, the Cherokee and Choctaw Indian tribes were used over the radio because nobody could understand their languages. In the second world war, the Navajo, the Lakota, the Meskwaki, the Comanche and even Basques were used to protect information. Therefore, the need to protect information in sensitive environments is nothing new whatsoever.

The UK lost out on a key opportunity. We all have a little token that we use for accessing the Parliament’s websites and facilities, which has the letters RSA on it. RSA stands for Rivest, Shamir and Adleman. Those American mathematicians developed a very secure way of communicating. Thirty years ago, of course, a single sheet of A4 paper, which was a secret document and which came to light only 10 years ago, showed that, nearly 10 years before Rivest, Shamir and Adleman developed their system, Government Communications Headquarters and its predecessors were already developing it. We lost the commercial opportunity in the UK, and now the USA controls things. It is important that innovation is not stifled by legislators simply not understanding the importance of and manners of working that there are for technology.

If we were to proceed with the proposal in the Queen’s speech, we would no longer be as secure in our banking and communication as we currently are. That is a huge risk. The migration of services will inevitably take place; indeed, that is already beginning to happen in the United States. That will damage a key sector of the economy of the UK as a whole, but differentially for Scotland, for which that sector is even more important.

I hope that the cabinet secretary and his officials will think about that and that all the parties here will be able to work with colleagues at Westminster to ensure that what has been proposed does not happen. I am disappointed that the Liberals are not with us today, because I know that they are sensitive to the matter and will be onside in helping to oppose the particular so-called innovation to protect us from terrorism. It will not do that, but it will damage business if it goes ahead in the proposed form. I hope that we will all oppose it.

15:24  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-13338, in the name of John Swinney, on Scotland can do: a framework for entrepreneurship and innovation. ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this debate on the steps that we are taking to strengthen support for the development of new enterprises in Scotland. Thi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the cabinet secretary feel that young people in schools are being encouraged to consider entrepreneurship and having their own business? It seems that t...
John Swinney SNP
I am not sure whether Mr Mason and I were in the school system at the same time, but I suspect we were probably round about the same year—let me put it as ge...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate on Scotland can do. It is clear that there is much to be done to raise the level of entrepreneurship in Scotland. My amendment refers to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
I remind members that we have time available in the debate. I call Graham Pearson. You have 10 minutes or so. 14:49
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for allowing me to contribute to the debate. First, I commend all those who are involved in business across Scotland, and the...
John Mason SNP
The member talks about entrepreneurship and the importance of any benefits being shared around, so that the profits do not just appear in one place. Does he ...
Graeme Pearson Lab
I am pleased to acknowledge that all approaches to entrepreneurial benefit and business development have a benefit for wider communities if they are properly...
Dennis Robertson (Aberdeenshire West) (SNP) SNP
Does the member acknowledge that university is not the only route to success for entrepreneurs? A lot of young people with many diverse talents may seek a di...
Graeme Pearson Lab
Of course I acknowledge that, and I hope to come on to that point later. The Scottish Government should encourage universities to work even more closely wit...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We come to the open debate. I can allow speeches of seven minutes or so and still have a bit of time for interventions. 15:02
Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
John Swinney began by saying that the Government’s Scotland can do framework is ambitious. I am glad, because Scotland should have ambition. We have much to ...
Margaret McDougall (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate on Scotland can do. I will focus on the work of Jim Duffy’s Entrepreneurial-Spark, already mentioned by ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
At least one civil servant is due some congratulations from us all. Finding “CAN DO” from the words “capable”, “ambitious”, “networked”, “demand” and “opport...
Roderick Campbell (North East Fife) (SNP) SNP
It is always a challenge to follow Stewart Stevenson. I will certainly not talk about investigatory powers or snoopers charters. I was going to start with a ...
Anne McTaggart (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I express my pleasure at having the opportunity to take part in this important debate this afternoon. The Scotland can do framework was launched to set out ...
Mark McDonald (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
I speak in the debate from the perspective of someone whose father took the decision—in 1998, along with one of his fellow employees at a company—to start up...
John Mason SNP
I listened with great interest to what Mr McDonald said about his constituents. He said that they are role models, but does he know whether they have been go...
Mark McDonald SNP
I could not say offhand whether either of those two individuals has been into local schools, but often when I speak to headteachers in my constituency, it is...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
The clock may be ticking, but I can give you the time back for the intervention.
Mark McDonald SNP
Okay—I can see other members instantly regretting that, but if I may I have one final point about the opportunity that can arise from adversity. In the oil...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Like Mark McDonald, I would say that there are encouraging signs in this area—I noted from one of the briefings that the total early stage entrepreneurial ac...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
Perhaps there is a bit more entrepreneurship around than we recognise because it is not all commercially applied. If a church runs a coffee morning, it is be...
John Mason SNP
That is fair. I am interested that Mr Stevenson used the word “confident”, which I touched on earlier. That is definitely part of the issue. The UK system s...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy and the Government for bringing the debate to the chamber to allow us to discuss Scotland...
Clare Adamson (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to rise in support of the Scotland can do framework, “which makes clear Scotland’s ambitions and sets out the priority areas where the Scotti...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I support the motion, of course. I do so because I am passionate about my nation and about its performance. I have been somewhat lucky in my past to have run...
Stewart Stevenson SNP
As the member has, like me, been in technology, he will perhaps remember the autobiography of Andy Grove, the chief executive of Intel, which is called “Only...
Chic Brodie SNP
That is required. Also required are the involvement and acceptance of all the workforce. We have talked about skills investment. We have to expand our skill...