Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2015
01 Apr 2015 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Economy and Finances
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
The timescale would inevitably be a product of negotiation with the UK Government. I can set out my view all I want, but I must accept the reality that full fiscal autonomy would take place only following negotiation with the UK. We have had to wrestle with issues to do with the fiscal framework just to take forward the Smith commission proposals—we have had to go through a process of negotiation to enable that to happen.
Gavin Brown has called for scrutiny of the issue, which he is perfectly within his rights to ask for. The people of Scotland will also want scrutiny of the Tory cuts programme—the £12 billion of welfare cuts, not reforms, that the Prime Minister wants to take forward. Let us have detail from Gavin Brown about those cuts, so that people will be able to judge on that on 7 May. From the Labour Party, we would like to hear—
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-12857, in the name of Gavin Brown, on Scotland’s economy and finances. 14:40
Gavin Brown (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The Scottish Conservatives want to have a focused and analytical debate on the subject, specifically on the issue of full fiscal autonomy and the likely effe...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
I wonder whether the member accepts the principle that the Scottish Government and the SNP want both more powers for Scotland and the best possible deal for ...
Gavin Brown
Con
I am not sure whether Mr Mason simply does not understand the arithmetic or whether that is actually an admission from Mr Mason, who is a straightforward cha...
Mike MacKenzie (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown
Con
Perhaps we are about to get the answer to my question from Mr MacKenzie.
Mike MacKenzie
SNP
I wonder whether the IFS calculation that the member has laid out has taken into account the potential outcomes of the forthcoming UK election and how it has...
Gavin Brown
Con
The IFS figure is based on the projections set out by the UK Government at the time of the March budget, so no—the IFS figure does not take into account what...
Chic Brodie (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown
Con
Not at the moment, Mr Brodie. We see from Fiscal Affairs Scotland, another expert group, figures for 2019-20. I have given members the likely figure for 201...
Chic Brodie
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gavin Brown
Con
If we look at the projections for next year’s GERS figures, we see that that is not true. Not a single independent respected economist or forecaster on the p...
Chic Brodie
SNP
A man of great thought. Mr Brown goes on about the numbers. Can he explain why, under the country and regional analysis adjustments in 2012-13, which fed th...
Gavin Brown
Con
I am not quite sure whether that was Chic Brodie playing sudoku with a few numbers. It was probably nothing much more than that. In all seriousness, the Sco...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy (John Swinney)
SNP
Scotland requires the social and economic powers that are necessary to reflect the people of Scotland’s needs and preferences and to enable the people of Sco...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney
SNP
If Mr Fraser allows me to make a bit of progress, I will give way in a second. In considering those issues and making our case, I should point out that we a...
Gavin Brown
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney
SNP
I will give way to Mr Brown, and I remember that I promised to give way to Mr Fraser, too.
Gavin Brown
Con
I certainly do not think that we are incapable of doing what the cabinet secretary has suggested, but I do think that the Scottish Government should be candi...
John Swinney
SNP
That was not the inference that I took from Mr Brown’s speech. With the full policy levers of independence, we could improve on the performance that we have ...
Murdo Fraser
Con
The question that I wished to ask the cabinet secretary is this: if he is right in his analysis and if he is right in saying that the Scottish Government is ...
John Swinney
SNP
I will come on to address how that will come about, but first I want to go through some of the implications of different responsibilities being exercised in ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
The IFS also said that there would be a £7.6 billion gap. If we take the assumptions about the country’s economic performance that are made in the Government...
John Swinney
SNP
Jackie Baillie passes by the caveat that the IFS included, which is that the economy’s performance can be influenced as a consequence of exercising the respo...
Gavin Brown
Con
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way for a second time. In his view, the correct timescale for independence was 18 months. In his view, what...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
You are in your final minute, cabinet secretary.
John Swinney
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The timescale would inevitably be a product of negotiation with the UK Government. I can set out my view all I want, but I mus...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
The cabinet secretary will hear from the Labour Party.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Order, please. The cabinet secretary is closing. We must hear him.