Committee
Local Government and Regeneration Committee 21 January 2015
21 Jan 2015 · S4 · Local Government and Regeneration Committee
Item of business
Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Dr Cooper
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The question is difficult to answer, as evidence suggests that most cities and Governments have been powerless to control the excesses of some of the TNCs. To my knowledge, the most common response is to fine and place citations on Uber drivers. A difficulty is that the company that provides the service considers itself to be not a transportation company at all but a technology company and therefore outside the regulation of transport that applies to the drivers who happen to use its service. Citations and fines are therefore placed on the drivers, and the most common response by Uber has been to pay the fines as, in effect, a cost of entering the market. The only really successful action against Uber has been in the Spanish courts and has removed telecommunications access to its app, which prevents anybody from getting to Uber through their smartphone. That comes at a high price, in that not everything that the technology allows is a bad idea. Perhaps its application is bad or even illegal, but the concept behind it might be harmed by the removal of the service. It is hard to accommodate Uber. Cities in the US that have done so have done that by changing their laws, chapters and codes in a way that is satisfactory—if you will excuse the term—to the companies that want the change. That has been the only method by which the service has become fully legal.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Item 2 is our sixth oral evidence session on the Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Bill. We will take evidence from witnesses on the provisions that relat...
Dr James Cooper (Edinburgh Napier University)
Thank you ever so much for inviting me to give evidence, convener. I have prepared a short presentation for the committee and I would be delighted to take qu...
The Convener
SNP
Please go ahead.
Dr Cooper
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you ever so much for inviting me. My presentation will address issues specific to licensing of taxis, which in ...
The Convener
SNP
Please be brief, as we have quite a lot of questions to get through.
Dr Cooper
The concept of quantity restraint has been based on a view of market failure and a lack of equilibrium. Concerns change when the market is transformed. The c...
The Convener
SNP
You have highlighted some areas that the committee has already asked the Government for clarification on. We posed questions to the Government on the growth ...
Dr Cooper
The technology appears to have moved so quickly that any response needs to be aware of its current and future development. It is true that the taxi industry ...
The Convener
SNP
Uber has tried to be somewhat conciliatory this week in response to criticisms that have been made. It faces legal challenges in a number of countries and ha...
Dr Cooper
The question is difficult to answer, as evidence suggests that most cities and Governments have been powerless to control the excesses of some of the TNCs. T...
The Convener
SNP
Do you think that we have the flexibility under the current legislation and the bill to make changes in law if necessary, should Uber or others try to enter ...
Dr Cooper
I am afraid that I do not. The bill as it stands reflects the legacy market alone and will not be fit for the following market.
The Convener
SNP
Do you disagree with the statement that I read out earlier from a civil servant in response to our questions?
Dr Cooper
I am afraid that I do.
The Convener
SNP
What is your reason for that?
Dr Cooper
I believe that Uber accrues a benefit in being seen to be on the wrong side of the law. It gains notoriety among its user group and benefits from that positi...
The Convener
SNP
I will bring in Mr Rowley in a minute as he wants to ask a supplementary question, but first I have a question about the monopoly of the application of the a...
Dr Cooper
The contention was that it may become monopolistic. The Edinburgh hackney carriage apps are extremely good and I can recommend them. The benefits of the tec...
Alex Rowley (Cowdenbeath) (Lab)
Lab
I have spoken to people who tell me that the bill does not reflect the transformed market. What does the bill need to do to reflect that market and are there...
Dr Cooper
There are examples of legislation, in a transformed market, that exist post-app development; I point you to the Washington DC, chapter 31 regulations and the...
The Convener
SNP
Would it be fair to say that in Scotland we have not yet entered what you call a transformed market?
Dr Cooper
That is a fair comment. I believe that Scotland is on the brink of entering the transformed market and will develop exceptionally quickly, once it starts.
The Convener
SNP
You say “on the brink”, but do you have any idea when the transformed market is likely to happen here?
Dr Cooper
I understand that Uber Britannia has applied for licences in Glasgow and Edinburgh. They will be granted and that company will begin to operate a variety of ...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Do you consider that the underlying reasons underpinning the need for the licensing of taxis and private hire cars are necessary? You said in your submission...
Dr Cooper
If we wait until the market is settled, we will have five or six more generations. The problem is that the technology will continue to change; what we see no...
Cameron Buchanan
Con
What are the advantages of the two-tier system that we have at the moment, with private hire and hackney carriages? Are there any advantages?
Dr Cooper
Today in 2015, yes; tomorrow in 2015, no.
Cameron Buchanan
Con
Right—that is what I thought. Should we be recasting the proposed measures or slightly changing them? Should we take them out of the bill and reform or tight...
Dr Cooper
I certainly agree that they need tightening. I do not have an alternative text for you, for which my apologies. The single-tier/dual-tier system question is...